Grapple Design

[dtd24]

Ok finally back on this project. Since I started this thing I saw alot of action in the grapple customs. I bought the Lion 2" bore six inch stroke. I settled on the lion because they had the best web site. Weird!!! Anyhoot, thought I would bump this old thread.

Been concentrating on the "farm" a bit, so I'm glad to be starting this again. Think I will head to the scrap yard before I buy any steel. I have been thinking of just flat bar though.......instead of cutting arms with the plasma. I can weld same stock on for support if required. I dunno......

 

[IslandTractor]

Glad to see you are back on the grapple project. How about some updated photos when you get a chance.

 

[alchemysa]

I am afraid the your bucket surface where mount is attached is going to flex and maybe bend when you are clamped down on sumpin, might want to stiffen bucket or add low setting relief valve or equivalent

I agree. The weak point is the top plate of your bucket. You must remember that the cylinder is applying as much force to the end where the setup is welded or bolted to the bucket, as it is to the 'pointy' end. A powerful ram combined with your proposed geometry could bend the top of your bucket like tin foil. (Its already got a kink in it). All your drawings depict the ram at full extension with nothing in the jaws. But try picturing a 12'' log in the way of a ram that wants to keep going. The most likely thing to move or break is your mounting point. You should perhaps consider giving the mounting plate some additional support with a bracket that extends down the back of the bucket. You might also need to strengthen the top plate of the bucket. If you click on 3RRL's pics in message #15 you'll see he's got a pretty hefty square tube bar across top of his bucket. Another option is to make the mounting plate much wider so it bolts down the side of the bucket like the ATI grapple in message #17.

 

[dtd24]

I have put some thought into my bucket, as far as bending it goes. I think I will weld in some supports under the bucket lip for added support. I did think about the ATI design, but not sure I want the added weight of steel all the way across the bucket. Not to mention I have the steel angle piece which was recyled from a mobil station my company just took down, that isn't long enough to go end to end.

I will be heading to the scrap yard this weekend to see what I can find for steel.

 

[dtd24]

I have really been thinking about the plumbing. I think I have too much info.........brain kinda hurts. May be looking at this screen too long though. Ok, need some help here guys.

So my backhoe hook ups are the power beyong thing right? That means if I didn't have the hoe on and I didn't connect the two lines my 3ph wouldn't work?

I like the WR Long electric over hydraulic set up because I would be able to use all functions of the loader and grapple together.

I need to do some pricing on the selector valve kit. Seems this may be a cheaper way out.

Any ideas on the most economical way?

 

[IslandTractor]

With only a power beyond setup on your tractor you are kinda stuck and will need to either install a diverter for the FEL or a set of rear remotes which can serve multiple functions including the grapple and a more convenient attachment of the backhoe. Cost will likely be roughly the same for a simple diverter but rear remotes would be less than the electronic solonoid that permits full dump/curl at the same time as grapple open/close. I have the rear remotes and have done a lot of grapple work over the past year plus with no complaints. Like many things, it becomes very natural to control the grapple with the rear remotes after you do it for an hour or so.

 

[dtd24]

I read over pineridges install, very nice web site...........thank you.
He used this divertor
http://www.surpluscenter.com/adspecs/AS9-1782.pdf

What about this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/adspecs/AS9-5117.pdf

Any thoughts?

 

[SkunkWerX]

I read over pineridges install, very nice web site...........thank you.
He used this divertor
http://www.surpluscenter.com/adspecs/AS9-1782.pdf

What about this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/adspecs/AS9-5117.pdf

Any thoughts?

I just ordered the 2nd one, looks pretty straight forward.
Uses an On-Center Off-On switch (SPDT) to select between grapple cylinder and , let's say, bucket/dump cylinder.

My only unanswered question is: On this particular Selector valve, can a solenoid be energized at 100% duty cycle? ie; Can I leave it energized in "Bucket mode" , until such time i need to switch to grapple?

 

[dtd24]

Skunk, I spoke with surpluss center and you have it exactly correct. Only 1 can be energized at one time. So yes, you can just leave the dump/curl powered on all the time until you are ready to flip the switch to the other side to use the grapple.

The only issue is if you use the control lever without having the switch on one or the other, fluid may flow through the relief because both circuits are closed. Just wondering if you can use a different switch to eliminate that. DPDT maybe????

Funny how the first one is so much more, I mean another 70 bucks. The guy I spoke to did say most go with the 9-5117.

 

[dtd24]

Think I have it

ON-ON
Single Pole, Double Throw = SPDT
This switch can be on in both positions, switching on a separate device in each case. It is often called a changeover switch. For example, a SPDT switch can be used to switch on a red lamp (dump/curl) in one position and a green lamp (grapple)in the other position.

 

[SkunkWerX]

Think I have it

ON-ON
Single Pole, Double Throw = SPDT
This switch can be on in both positions, switching on a separate device in each case. It is often called a changeover switch. For example, a SPDT switch can be used to switch on a red lamp (dump/curl) in one position and a green lamp (grapple)in the other position.

Yes, dtd24 , you have it...I even looked at those switches!!
I knew about the fact that when both are OFF, there is no return through the Selector valve.
I like the idea of the ON:ON switch. That way something is going to happen.

I also looked at a Marine grade switch, that was (ON):ON
Which means it's Momentary on (ON) in one position, then when let go, springs to a regular, but separate ON.

Not sure, but that would be slick to pull it back for grapple, then release and have it go back to Bucket.

(Marine grade is higher $$, but, are rated for weather, salt air, etc.)

Anyway, way to go, your call and reply saved me a phone call!

Thanks very much.
I'll let you know about it once I have it in hand, palced order couple days ago.

 

[dtd24]

I ordered the 9-5117 valve from suplus center as well. I found a web site for some switches

Toggle Switches, Rocker Switches, LCD Programmable Switches, Subminiature Switches, Slide Switches, Surface Mount Switches, Programmable Switches, Pushbutton Switches, Push Button Switches, Miniature Toggle Switches, Tactile Switches

I looked at radio shack, but the kid was so dumb I had to leave fast.........

I like the idea of those momentary switches, but I think I may go with just a on/on. Just have to find the right one. I want to incorporate it into my control knob........may have to get a new one that is a bit bigger.

 

[SkunkWerX]

dtd24,
I'm waiting for my order, tracking it in UPS.

I've also contemplated a foot switch, that is ON for the bucket, but when depressed makes Bucket circuit OFF, and energizes Grapple Circuit.

If need be, I'll build it.

 

[dtd24]

Skunk, I was searching ebay for switches and came across a guy who deals in music equipment, he has a bunch of "stomp" switches that are used for electric guitar amp changes by foot........Wouldn't work for me because my tractor has gears........I would feel like I was dancing with all that fancy footwork.

 

[shaley]

I built this 3rd function switch box from a piece of 1x1 tube for my 3rd function valve. That is just plastic tube plugs at the ends. The switches are water proof and dust proof but only switch about 3A at 12v so I added a relay before the valve.
The valve was from Surplus center.
I like this set up over the rocker because I can use it with gloves on.

 

[dtd24]

shaley, i remember youe thread on that!! I really like that switch. I'm thinking of mounting just a 2 position toggle switch on the top of my control lever. I will put one of those boots on it to keep the moisture out. Click forward for dump/ curl, click back for grapple. I was thinking about getting a custom control knob or something cool.

Hey skunk.........you get that valve yet or what. I hate waiting for deleveries. No patience here.

 

[SkunkWerX]

Hey skunk.........you get that valve yet or what. I hate waiting for deleveries. No patience here.

It is "out for delivery" today!! [dances in a small circle]

Should have it when I get home, will be doing "fit up" of hydraulic cylinder this evening.

Went to Radio-Shack today, Found a SPDT that can act as an ON:ON.
Power comes in on Center Tap, then switches between the 2 outer taps, no Center OFF position. RS# 275-603
Need to find those little weatherproof boots that slide over a toggle switch.

edit: Correction...it's here!! I mean, there, at home. [dances in two circles]

From UPS website:
Status: Delivered
Delivered On: 07/16/2007 10:17 A.M.

 

[dtd24]

Skunk,
So............ what do you think? Mine should be here any day now!!!!

Napa has the boots that screw on the switch. I used them on my added light switches, and they work great.

 

[SkunkWerX]

Skunk,
So............ what do you think? Mine should be here any day now!!!!

Napa has the boots that screw on the switch. I used them on my added light switches, and they work great.

OK , NAPA, good call.

The valve is as described 2.5" deep x 4.5" wide by 6.5" tall....really straight forward, simple. Should present no problem hooking up elec. or hydraulics.
Eelctrical is a flat spade terminal.

After looking over my plumbing possibilities, I ordered some 90 degree 8M x NPT fittings, as I will be mounting the valve "sideways" if that's is what you'd call it. All my existing fittings and new hoses are NPT, so once I make the conversion it's NPT all the way to the cylinder.

My biggest challenge will be finding the exact right place to mount the valve. I have a prime spot, but, it may interfere with Oil filter....so I am pondering it , while waiting for the rest of the fittings and hoses to arrive.

Just checked UPS tracking, and I should have hoses and fittings by Friday, ready for weekend hook-up.

If all goes well, by Sunday eve I may have a functional grapple?

More news to follow.

 

[dtd24]

I made some final design changes and wanted to update you guys. I have decided to use flat stock and weld up all the joints. I will put plates over the welds in the arms if I need the added strength. This will be more productive for me. I also made the grapple a bit larger and added 2 more arms. This allows the end 2 arms to be in line with the bucket cylinders, which will add to the strength. I figure this thing will weigh somewhere about 200lbs all put together.

I have thought about using 1/4" for the arms, any comments on that. I figure with the added arms, I may be able to get away with it. Let me know what you guys think.

I have made some real headway with the valve as well. I think I have the electrical and plumbing figured out. I will be going down to Parker hydraulic this week to pick up the fittings I need.

This project has strung out quite a bit longer than I figured, but I have never built anything like this so I want to make sure I get what I want out of it.

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance !!!!!!!!!!