Grapple Failure

[IslandTractor]

By the way, here is a photo of the tower design of the EA "wicked" 50 inch single lid grapple. <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=368598"/>

Looks like an engineer was involved rather than just a welder. Looks good. I think EA may use less than 1/4" but high strength if I recall just as their tines are 5/16th rather than 3/8th but are high strength.

 

[CalG]

Looks like an engineer was involved rather than just a welder. Looks good. I think EA may use less than 1/4" but high strength if I recall just as their tines are 5/16th rather than 3/8th but are high strength.

IS that one of those $2k grapples?

Wicked expensive repair on the OP failure. I would fix it for that ;-)

'Getting what you pay for........

The design of the WG is simple, elegant even. But I bet anyone of us could work it to failure ;-))

 

[k0ua]

Here is the last thing an embedded rock I want to dig out see's
The tines still match up perfectly top and bottom and I have dug out several stones that I think weighed close to 1000 lbs.
It does seem that the steel is high quality in this unit.

 

[k0ua]

IS that one of those $2k grapples?

Wicked expensive repair on the OP failure. I would fix it for that ;-)

'Getting what you pay for........

The design of the WG is simple, elegant even. But I bet anyone of us could work it to failure ;-))

I paid $1295 with free shipping... it is now $1395 with free shipping.

 

[sdef]

The link supplied only takes me to the OEM's main web site and not to a particular grapple I can compare the specifications on. I have read the first 6 pages of this post, skipped the rest of them and have the following comments based strictly upon my personal experience with the equipment I purchased and how I am using it, all on my very densely wooded, extremely rocky land. The clay is so dense one is not able to use a Bully Tools pointed shovel to manually dig a hole of any size, with the clay wet or dry. I am using the tractor to dig up tree stumps I have left and dig out large rocks/small boulders using a CID stump bucket, WildKat 48" rock grapple bucket (525#) and Dirt Dog 72" (710#) ROBB. I purchased all of this equipment knowing lesser built attachments would not survive my usage.

While deciding on my equipment purchases, I called the retailers or OEMs for specific information on construction, especially WildKat due to earlier posts on TBN about 1/8" metal. Many made equipment of varying robustness, designed I believe for competitiveness in this market we enjoy. This means there are equipment in various weight/strength vs. cost ratios and one needs to know what one's needs are and make the correct purchasing decisions.

Rest assured that most of the ground engaging equipment equipment sold at TSC, Agri-Supply, Northern Tool, many farm stores and tractor dealers, and everything I have seen advertised on CraigsList in my area, would be damaged in short order on my property and attached to my tractor. I believe that all of the structural steel in my equipment is at least 3/8" and I seem to recall some 5/8" in my rock grapple. I have used all of my attachments to the maximum capabilities of my tractor- every time I use it, and only have some scratched paint and a broken tip on one of the ROBB's shanks to show for all of the usage. I have had a rock and a stump in the grapple (very low to the ground) that caused the rear tractor tires to slowly bounce off the ground as I gingerly moved each item out of my way, and I have loaded rear tires, along with that ROBB on there, plus 100# of tools. When I dig out a stump, I usually end up with an 8' - 10' diameter hole, 3.5' - 4' deep. The large diameter is due to large rocks below ground level surrounding the stump. All of my equipment seem to only have high quality components, including the Parker hoses and Italian 1/2" ISO 16028 couplings on the WildKat rock grapple.

I will purchase any more equipment I may need from any tractor equipment OEM I currently own, as they have proven to me they make quality equipment for my needs. Plus all of the FEL attachments have a great fit to the skid steer tool bar with no slop. I am very pleased with it all.

Attached are a few pics of my property, most of which have been posted on TBN in other posts. The rocks in the bucket are not the large ones, with each one coming close to maxing out the tractor.

 

[The Fred]

I find this kind of wining from the OP so typical of our failing modern society. Unfortunately, its prevalent on this site. The guy bought the economy grapple because he was too cheap to buy the beefy one. That's fine, I do the same thing all the time. He then latches onto something a little too big or heavy for the grapple and it bends a little bit. Sure, it happens, you bought the cheap one, you should expect it. The rest of the unit is working fine. Fix it yourself and move on. Instead of blaming himself for misusing it, he publicly shames the manufacturer of the grapple and guilt's them into giving him a new one to save face. Isn't that just great. I really hope you feel good about yourself. You know what, some people like me like a lighter weight grapple to work with. I'd rather use it carefully and have the extra lift capacity.

Pretty POOR third post. The company should stand behind there JUNK period!

I'm with Richard (OVRSZD)......where's the popcorn?opcorntub:



Fred

 

[IslandTractor]

IS that one of those $2k grapples? Wicked expensive repair on the OP failure. I would fix it for that ;-) 'Getting what you pay for........ The design of the WG is simple, elegant even. But I bet anyone of us could work it to failure ;-))

As I recall they sell the EA light duty for something like $1400 including shipping.

 

[k0ua]

As I recall they sell the EA light duty for something like $1400 including shipping.

I got mine for $100 less,.. I got in on the "ground floor"

 

[redtailfarm]

If for some reason you pursue replacing it, I would strongly consider the Anbo line.
I have used one for my L39 and can attest to its strength. I do not baby it and it doesn't need to be. Anbo claims the steel is stronger than T1.. no argument from me there.
It is probably the most used implement I have.
Good Luck!

 

[bhh]

I find this kind of wining from the OP so typical of our failing modern society. Unfortunately, its prevalent on this site. The guy bought the economy grapple because he was too cheap to buy the beefy one. That's fine, I do the same thing all the time. He then latches onto something a little too big or heavy for the grapple and it bends a little bit. Sure, it happens, you bought the cheap one, you should expect it. The rest of the unit is working fine. Fix it yourself and move on. Instead of blaming himself for misusing it, he publicly shames the manufacturer of the grapple and guilt's them into giving him a new one to save face. Isn't that just great. I really hope you feel good about yourself. You know what, some people like me like a lighter weight grapple to work with. I'd rather use it carefully and have the extra lift capacity.

While I respect your opinion and right to express it here, I must take issue with your suggestion that I have not been fair and honest in my recount of the situation. I'll repeat once again for the record, the grapple has not been abused or misused. The 25 hours is indeed an estimate but one I have a high degree of confidence in since the tractor itself has only 42 hours and the FEL splits its time between pallet forks and bucket. Given that I also own a (Landpride) Box Blade and Rotary Cutter that I use with this machine, neither of which requires grapple use, I think the 25 hours estimate is probably on the high side.

I also find it puzzling that you find an honest review of a product indicative of the decay of modern society but have no problem with what might be considered by some as a mean-spirited personal attack and let's face it, you're pretty much calling me a liar and you were rude in the way you did it. The irony is that from my perspective, one of the biggest problems in modern society is that too many people no longer seem willing or able to engage in a polite, respectful dialog with someone who has a point of view other than their own. The need to resort to derogatory and disparaging comments as a substitute for a well-articulated differing opinion is something I simply do not understand and I actually find this forum is usually a refreshing alternative to that sort of behavior. I am no longer a young man but was brought up to treat people with respect, even those with whom I disagree. I suspect you probably were as well so while I ponder exactly how I feel about myself, perhaps you might do the same.

 

[joshuabardwell]

By the way, here is a photo of the tower design of the EA "wicked" 50 inch single lid grapple.
View attachment 368598

Now that ain't going anywhere. Say what you want about EA's prices, their designs are pretty solid.

 

[Red Horse]

Looks to me like "Titan Attattachments is just a distributor.

Could be wrong, but that would be an indirect line to a failure resolution.

Hmm STF,

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/180624-new-titan-grapple-2.html

Read the first post and post #20. 'Guess nothing is perfect.

"Ya's pays ya's moneys and takes ya's chances"

My thought exactly-went to their website-no reference top a corporate address or facility. when I bought my "Econo 48" Wildkat" I had done some research on this site. Also recalled a post from a gent who went to their site-he was impressed. I did the next best thing I could-I googled earth the address-sure did look like a manufacturing facility. I don't like doing business with "marketing" companies as for sure that says to me no clue where the next order is coming from.

By the way, pulled my records. Bought mine 2/12, and the price without attachment system (I wanted to put my own JD system on) was 510 bucks- freight brought total to 670. Shortly after I bought mine, I know they started bumping price up.

 

[Missouri Pioneer]

View attachment 367818View attachment 367821View attachment 367824View attachment 367825View attachment 367826Wow do i feel guilty- I'm one of the wildkat 48 boosters who has published many "endorsements" on this site. My point- **** of a value. I paid under 700 bucks delivered to Mass. And guess what? I broke mine too! Not wildkat's fault- my fault.

A lot of good comments here by CalG, Puckginder 85, and Island Tractor to name a few. I don't know how you damaged yours, but I suspect the hydraulic cylinder had nothing to do with it.

What I did was foolishly try to "hog out" a good sized boulder by rolling the grapple forward, opening the jaw, then lowering the upper grapple on the lip of the rock and backing up-and I'm talking about 60 HP (4720 cab), loaded R-4's, and about a 500lb weight block that is adorned with about 60' of 3/8 chain. Next thing I knew the grapple in the "closed position was about 10 or 12" from closure.

Remedy? I took the cylinder off and used a heavy chainfall to pull the grapple to the closed position. then I did a half assed repair by welding the back side and adding a couple of gussets to front. I will beef up the back side when I get a chance with some angle across the top,

Attached are pix showing the two breaks, and three shots of my quicky fix. Also a couple of pix "in action". IMO still a good value! Just have to use your head

X2. In fact, I believe I am the one that originally introduced the WildKat 48 to this forum. I think I got an early prototype with two upper jaws and (for under $600) and I've had absoutely no problem with it at all. From my perspective, it was a great buy and I'm completely satisfied. If it were to fail as the OP's did, I'd just weld it up, no problem and still be satisfied.

 

[tomato coupe]

I looked through this thread, but I didn't see a mention of the exact model being discussed. I copied this description from the manufacturer's website:

48" Mini E-Series Grapple
*Fits Toro Dingo, Thomas, Ramrod Finn, Ditchwitch, and more! - or Bobcat 463/S70 and MT55, MT50
24" high & 31" deep with 3/8"steel, 3 1/2" tubing, and a tie rod cylinder
420lbs $999

Is this the right grapple?

 

[IslandTractor]

I looked through this thread, but I didn't see a mention of the exact model being discussed. I copied this description from the manufacturer's website:

48" Mini E-Series Grapple
*Fits Toro Dingo, Thomas, Ramrod Finn, Ditchwitch, and more! - or Bobcat 463/S70 and MT55, MT50
24" high & 31" deep with 3/8"steel, 3 1/2" tubing, and a tie rod cylinder
420lbs $999

Is this the right grapple?

I doubt it as the Dingo has a smaller quick attach as far as I know. It might be very similar though but with a skid steer mount.

 

[sdef]

I looked through this thread, but I didn't see a mention of the exact model being discussed. I copied this description from the manufacturer's website:

48" Mini E-Series Grapple
*Fits Toro Dingo, Thomas, Ramrod Finn, Ditchwitch, and more! - or Bobcat 463/S70 and MT55, MT50
24" high & 31" deep with 3/8"steel, 3 1/2" tubing, and a tie rod cylinder
420lbs $999

Is this the right grapple?

Agreed. And the link provided early on was no help to me. It would be nice to know exactly which model is being referenced so possibly a better evaluation could be performed. Also early on I thought I saw a post referencing ~ 350#? If this is true, it would be a lightweight model.

 

[tomato coupe]

I doubt it as the Dingo has a smaller quick attach as far as I know. It might be very similar though but with a skid steer mount.

Since it is the only 48" grapple that matches the photo in the OP's first post, I think you're right - they must have made it at one time with a skid steer mount. (I don't see anything on the website that shows the 48-inch "economy" grapple available for tractors or skid steers.) The manufacturer may have decided that the grapple was under-engineered for SCUT or CUT use but, rather than beef up the construction for use on SCUTs or CUTs, they now sell it only as a Dingo-type implement. A Dingo is unlikely to generate the same stresses on the grapple as the OP's tractor (which is an L3200 with LA524 loader?). It may be that the design flaws that many TBNers have pointed to are not a concern when used on a Dingo.

Just speculation ...

 

[bhh]

I'm pretty sure it is the E-Series, or very similar to it as it is the only 48" grapple on the site now at least. I don't recall the specifics on the website when I bought it but I did call them and discuss it with them prior to purchase and told them I was looking for a 48" grapple for a Kubota L3800 with LA524 loader with SSQA. I think the price was $899 when I bought mine but I was very clear about my machine specs as I was more concerned about it fitting properly at the time than strength as I had read pretty good reviews on this site and had not seen the other failure thread. I also don't think they custom fabricated it as they turned it around pretty quick as I recall once I placed the order. There was no discussion on the grapple being undersized or under-designed and ample opportunity to do so I believe as I think I ended up speaking with them a couple of times prior to ordering.

Also, can a Dingo, Bobcat 463 or Ditchwitch even lift a 420lb grapple?

 

[bhh]

I reached out to Wildkat via email and just ask them if the grapple is/was under-designed for my machine. If that were the case, it would have been preferable to know it before I purchased but I'd consider upgrading to more appropriate unit if they would apply my original purchase price as a credit to the new one. If not, then I'll just have to reinforce as required as many people offered very good suggestions on how to do so and my neighbor did agree to swap me his welding time for some tractor time. I probably could repair this cheaper than the shipping charges as well but my neighbor did say he felt a lot less comfortable trying to repairing this than he would welding on support pieces to reinforce a new one.

After this happened and I was looking around on the EA website at their new grapples, I did notice they gave a very specific HP range on their 48" model which would push me into the next size up if I were buying one of theirs. I appreciate that actually because we all want the appropriate tool for the job. Due to the reviews on this grapple (don't feel guilty, a good review is a good review), and the perceived lack of concern over the machine size when I purchased it, I truly believed I was doing just that. ~$1000 is a lot of money to spend on a tool and it never occurred to me that I was somehow skimping out. I still believe this is the appropriate size grapple for this size tractor, just not sure about the execution and design. Most of these Heavy-Duty grapples are very heavy and clearly designed for skid-steers or much larger tractors with much greater lift capacities.

 

[tomato coupe]

I reached out to Wildkat via email and just ask them if the grapple is/was under-designed for my machine. If that were the case, it would have been preferable to know it before I purchased but I'd consider upgrading to more appropriate unit if they would apply my original purchase price as a credit to the new one. If not, then I'll just have to reinforce as required as many people offered very good suggestions on how to do so and my neighbor did agree to swap me his welding time for some tractor time. I probably could repair this cheaper than the shipping charges as well but my neighbor did say he felt a lot less comfortable trying to repairing this than he would welding on support pieces to reinforce a new one.

After this happened and I was looking around on the EA website at their new grapples, I did notice they gave a very specific HP range on their 48" model which would push me into the next size up if I were buying one of theirs. I appreciate that actually because we all want the appropriate tool for the job. Due to the reviews on this grapple (don't feel guilty, a good review is a good review), and the perceived lack of concern over the machine size when I purchased it, I truly believed I was doing just that. ~$1000 is a lot of money to spend on a tool and it never occurred to me that I was somehow skimping out. I still believe this is the appropriate size grapple for this size tractor, just not sure about the execution and design. Most of these Heavy-Duty grapples are very heavy and clearly designed for skid-steers or much larger tractors with much greater lift capacities.

It may actually be less costly for them to give you credit towards a bigger / beefier / more expensive grapple, so they might agree to that.