Grease Compatibility Hell

[jyoutz]

The rumor is true. Lucas green is back in the stores. Bought some at Walmart today.

 

[jyoutz]

So far I'm hearing that the only way to safely switch from a polyurea grease to a lithium grease is to try to pump as much new grease through and hope to remove enough of the old incompatible grease as possible to avoid damage. My problem is that I don't think that will work with some of my steering components, and my Woodmaxx snow blower specifically warns not to inject too much grease for fear of damaging the seals.

Of course I also have the option of tearing it apart and cleaning out all the existing grease, but that is not going to happen.

It is hard to believe that equipment and grease manufacturers don't provide more information to prevent customers from falling into the polyurea grease trap. It kind of pisses me off.

I just ordered a carton of John Deere Multi-Purpose SD Polyurea Grease TY6341 via ebay.

Why would you want to switch from polyurea to lithium? Polyurea is superior in all aspects.

https://www.lucasoil.com/pdf/04_Greases_XtraHDGrease_PDS3.pdf

 

[gsganzer]

I understand the material compatibility charts, especially as it applies to bearings. Especially high-speed bearings like mower spindles, u-joints, trailer hubs etc. In those applications, I'd flush/repack the bearings if I made a change between incompatible greases.

But I wonder how big of a deal the compatibility is on simple bushings and pivot pins, like you have on loaders etc. You obviously wouldn't want to keep swapping back and forth, but I'd think if you made a change from poly-urea to a lithium complex and then stuck with it, I wouldn't expect there to be much issue.

Does anyone who's smarter than me know?

 

[gsganzer]

Why would you want to switch from polyurea to lithium? Polyurea is superior in all aspects.

https://www.lucasoil.com/pdf/04_Greases_XtraHDGrease_PDS3.pdf

I think most trailer hub manufacturers recommend the red lithium complex, but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[Yander]

I like Lucas products, but for grease y'all wasting your money.

https://www.ruralking.com/mystik-jt6-high-temperature-multi-purpose-grease-14-oz-10001200

This is better than their HD green. Prove me wrong!

 

[gsganzer]

I like Lucas products, but for grease y'all wasting your money.

https://www.ruralking.com/mystik-jt6-high-temperature-multi-purpose-grease-14-oz-10001200

This is better than their HD green. Prove me wrong!

I use JT6 on everything I own. Trailers, car drive shaft universals, mower deck spindles and loaders/backhoe. My 4Runner has 250K miles and no play in the driveline and my mower deck is at 20 years and 1000 hrs with no issues either. I've never had a trailer axle fail yet either, although I do very little trailering with either my equipment or horse trailer.

 

[jyoutz]

I like Lucas products, but for grease y'all wasting your money.

https://www.ruralking.com/mystik-jt6-high-temperature-multi-purpose-grease-14-oz-10001200

This is better than their HD green. Prove me wrong!

No Rural King stores in the west.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

The bigger problem people have is not greasing.

Just buy the cheap stuff and keep it greased. Most our equipment isnt that high performance

 

[jyoutz]

I think most trailer hub manufacturers recommend the red lithium complex, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Read the link for the product sheet that I posted. The polyurea outperforms lithium grease in all categories.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

Read the link for the product sheet that I posted. The polyurea outperforms lithium grease in all categories.

For someone who uses a trailer professionally/daily sure

Most hobby guys use it what, few times a year? Just give it a shot or 2 of grease before use and roll with it

 

[jyoutz]

For someone who uses a trailer professionally/daily sure

Most hobby guys use it what, few times a year? Just give it a shot or 2 of grease before use and roll with it

I like that it stays in place longer and doesn’t wash out. For as little as I use, another $4 per tube is negligible. I use about 4 tubes per year.

 

[rScotty]

Grease is basically a soft carrier which holds a lot of a base oil in suspension. The carrier used to be either a soap or a clay - which is why you see the reference to light metals in different types of grease. Different metal ions are how different soaps and clays are formed. Soaps and clays both are compounds of aluminum, lithium, barium, calcium and so on. For example, different light metals give you different kinds of clay - bentonite, illinite, montmorillinite, kaolinite and so forth. Same for soaps.

Incompatible greases happen when two different carriers react to form a solid. Then the oil is squeezed out . You may have seen this same thing happen on old grease or grease which is stored at high temperature - The grease tubes will actually drip oil until it has none. So add age or temperature to the list of grease problems.

Then along came polyurea as a carrier. Tests showed it should hold the base oil better & longer. There are two main families of polyurea - called "conventional" and "shear stabilized". Conventional poly had compatibility problems. The newer shear stabilized polyurethane is compatible with just about every other grease carrier chemistry. That's better, but the shear stabilized costs more....of course....

I know this stuff from some industrial work I used to do, but I still don't know the perfect answer. And even if we did, there is no assurance in today's world that one batch is like another.

What I do is use John Deere's tubes of shear stabilized polyurethane TY6341 grease just about everywhere. It's general purpose & also happens to be green - but I don't know if that is because the material is that color or if they dye it. It's always available & medium priced. No problems so far.

The one kind of place I use something else is on dirty low speed & very high load bushing surfaces like the backhoe swing tables or the lower FEL bucket pivot. Those get a sticky molybendum grease - usually a lithium base, but there I'm looking for moly plus tacky plus a higher viscosity base oil.

Your opinions welcome,
rScotty

 

[Williy]

Here's a blerp from the net:

Lithium grease is a multipurpose grease known for its durability, high viscosity, and stability. It is designed to provide long-lasting protection against oxidation, corrosion, extreme temperatures, and wear and tear.

You don't want any grease with clay in it!!!!!!!

willy

 

[jyoutz]

Grease is basically a soft carrier which holds a lot of a base oil in suspension. The carrier used to be either a soap or a clay - which is why you see the reference to light metals in different types of grease. Different metal ions are how different soaps and clays are formed. Soaps and clays both are compounds of aluminum, lithium, barium, calcium and so on. For example, different light metals give you different kinds of clay - bentonite, illinite, montmorillinite, kaolinite and so forth. Same for soaps.

Incompatible greases happen when two different carriers react to form a solid. Then the oil is squeezed out . You may have seen this same thing happen on old grease or grease which is stored at high temperature - The grease tubes will actually drip oil until it has none. So add age or temperature to the list of grease problems.

Then along came polyurea as a carrier. Tests showed it should hold the base oil better & longer. There are two main families of polyurea - called "conventional" and "shear stabilized". Conventional poly had compatibility problems. The newer shear stabilized polyurethane is compatible with just about every other grease carrier chemistry. That's better, but the shear stabilized costs more....of course....

I know this stuff from some industrial work I used to do, but I still don't know the perfect answer. And even if we did, there is no assurance in today's world that one batch is like another.

What I do is use John Deere's tubes of shear stabilized polyurethane TY6341 grease just about everywhere. It's general purpose & also happens to be green - but I don't know if that is because the material is that color or if they dye it. It's always available & medium priced. No problems so far.

The one kind of place I use something else is on dirty low speed & very high load bushing surfaces like the backhoe swing tables or the lower FEL bucket pivot. Those get a sticky molybendum grease - usually a lithium base, but there I'm looking for moly plus tacky plus a higher viscosity base oil.

Your opinions welcome,
rScotty

Thanks for shedding more light on this topic.

 

[lman]

I like Lucas products, but for grease y'all wasting your money.

https://www.ruralking.com/mystik-jt6-high-temperature-multi-purpose-grease-14-oz-10001200

This is better than their HD green. Prove me wrong!

Some could say you're wasting your money.

https://www.ruralking.com/providence-automotive-premium-lith-flex-grease-as-50-14oz-palit14g

 

[Paystar]

I use whatever my suppliers give me for free, LOL

 

[ChiefBodie]

Here's a blerp from the net:

Lithium grease is a multipurpose grease known for its durability, high viscosity, and stability. It is designed to provide long-lasting protection against oxidation, corrosion, extreme temperatures, and wear and tear.

You don't want any grease with clay in it!!!!!!!

willy

Agreed

 

[dadohead]

I just ordered a carton of John Deere Multi-Purpose SD Polyurea Grease TY6341 via ebay.

You'll be good. That's what John Deere uses on the assembly line.... for just about everthing. They even apply it on the wiring harness connectors as a dielectric grease!

Regarding grease for ball bearings, I chatted with the NTN bearing guy (on one of his visits to JD engineering) about a good grease for the open bearings (fed with grease cups) in my 1950 Walker Turner spindle shaper machine (given that it is high speed: 10,000 rpm). He laughed "first, 10,000 rpm is NOT high speed." They use Mobil Polyrex EM for 90% of the bearing applications in their assembly. It's commonly called "electric motor grease." I bought a tube and use that in my wood shop. BTW- it is blue.

 

[Tinhack]

Lithium grease doesn't stand up to high pressure applications. It gets displaced easily and all those special additives get squeezed out, so its lubrication value drops to near zero. Places like ball joints, hydraulic cylinder links, loader pins, U-Joints and the like should use a Moly grease.

I have 5 or 6 tubes of Red & Tacky left and use it everywhere else. But I wouldn't dare use it in my trucks ball joints or other front-end parts. Nor do I rely on it for the heavy tractor joints.

If JD grease is good enough for a dielectric grease, it fits right into their auto maintenance and parts replacement schemes. I gotta say, I do have some of their corn head grease though.

 

[319Quahog]

Lithium grease doesn't stand up to high pressure applications. It gets displaced easily and all those special additives get squeezed out, so its lubrication value drops to near zero. Places like ball joints, hydraulic cylinder links, loader pins, U-Joints and the like should use a Moly grease.

Yeah, moly grease is the right stuff for most tractor parts. I think my current tube is that Valvoline ford Lincoln Mercury stuff I got cheap.

Love Mystik JT-6 for automotive applications though.

Of course any grease is better than none.