Green Horn

[Appygirl]

Hello everyone,
I been lurking for almost a week here picking up information. Boy, are you guys great! I also bought the book from this sight, which has greatly helped.
I guess I still need some reassurance from you all. I have taken a time out on looking at tractors and have started concentrated on what I need for my jobs around here as far as horse power, transmission, hydraulics, pto's, torque etc.... There is still a variable for me and that is the horse power and what would the rate be for a high flowing pto ( numbers please).
I printed off a few spec sheets and just got a glaze over my eyes. LOL
I really am not sure which number is better when looking at pto's and hydraulics. So I need to break it down some how.
I did look at the Kubota L3240 34hp, and MF 1540 gross 40hp, pto is 31hp est. What hard is the different lingo for the spec ( words are different but mean the same...haven't figure that out .

So here is what I have to do on 10 acres with horses. Obviously lots of heaven clean up in spring, plan on using round bales this winter( need to make sure I can get the 4x5 rounds), need to brush hog borrowed 7 acre pasture plus my stuff, drag , and maintenance of manure. We have had alot of tree taken down over the past 3 years and I want to do clean there as well. My goal is to work smarter not harder!!
I just want to make sure I have enough horse power, and easy attachment of implements. Eventually I will use the tractor for snow clearing, but right now old man Curtis has the job until when ever. I would hope most dealers would steer me in the right direction, but I hate being ignorant treading in a new venture. I have already operated stump grinders, bobcats, sm 2-wd backhoe( that was a joke, I had to get my neighbor to back fill with his real tractor!) So even though I've operated this stuff the tractor is another whole ball of wax. Hubby is nervous about it, but like someone suggested... hand him a shovel and a wheel barrel and tell him to go clean up the manure piles!! He'll be back in an hour saying," where do I sign". I have 6 horse each creates 8-12 piles day X 6; they love the corners too! Ugg!
So that's my case and I'm sticking to it!
I have more questions, but I think this is a pretty good start for now.
Any help will be greatly appreciated and thank you ahead of time for your time.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Welcome!

So here is what I have to do on 10 acres with horses. Obviously lots of heaven clean up in spring, plan on using round bales this winter( need to make sure I can get the 4x5 rounds), need to brush hog borrowed 7 acre pasture plus my stuff, drag , and maintenance of manure. We have had alot of tree taken down over the past 3 years and I want to do clean there as well. My goal is to work smarter not harder!!

We are on 20 acres with 10 of it in hay, now down to 1 horse but had 2 for a while. We have 3 acres in pasture, which gets mowed occasionally, some other areas to mow, and we mostly pasture the horses (now horse) and simply drag the manure most of the time - we only scooped it to clean out their run-in shed in the spring. So my tasks are reasonably similar.

The one task you list that really requires a decent sized tractor is the 4x5 round bales. They can't be moved at all with a SCUT, and they are iffy for a CUT. Describe your property - is it flat, sloping, hilly, anything extreme? How many rounds will you be moving? I assume they are purchased and trucked in? A utility tractor is what you would need to comfortably move round bales, especially if the land isn't flat. If your land is flat, you could probably manage with the mid to larger CUTs, but you'll have to have plenty of counterweight and it won't be as easy and comfortable as it would be with a larger tractor.

I have a JD 5105, a 50hp utility tractor, and it does all my mowing, pasture maintenance and bale handling quite easily. It is bigger than I need for anything but the bale handling. For our 4x5 rounds of alfalfa, it is big enough to never feel strained, but it never feels too big either. Our land is mostly flat with a gentle slope between hay fields and barn/pasture area. I would feel slightly nervous going up that slope with a 4x5 on the FEL spear if I had a smaller tractor, though I think it could be done.

Other than for 4x5 round bales, all your tasks could be done with a small to midsize CUT, quite comfortably I think. Some of them may even be easier with a smaller tractor, if you want to mow or drag close to fencelines, or do anything inside a barn. Dragging requires hardly any hp; a SCUT would be fine for that. Mowing requires some hp, depending on the mower size and what you're mowing, but not tons - you could run a 6' brush mower with a 25-30 PTO hp tractor without trouble. The tractors you've looked at would be comfortable with a 6' mower. I think they are on the edge for bale handling - they could probably lift the bales, but without a lot of reserve capacity. If your land is totally flat and you're moving bales a short distance, they would probably be fine. If you have hills or a long distance to move bales from storage to feeding, I would go larger.

 

[Timber]

Welcome to the group, sounds like you will fit right in hear

 

[Appygirl]

Hi Z-Michigan, I'm actually north of you near Lake Michigan.
The property is pretty level where I'm at; there are mild slopes in some areas.
I was thinking of using a pallet with a spear for the round bales and for counter weight I was thinking of having the tires filled with rim guard and maybe have a back blade on the rear. Using the pallet instead of the FEL would have less weight in front right and might help with balance? YEs, the bales are a big concern and while the land is pretty level the snow will be on the ground and so I'll have a new area to plow to get there safely. I wouldn't have to far to go 100-200 feet still would be far enough to get a wobble or two if the strength and balance isn't right.
Can you get through 3-4ft snow drifts carrying one? I guess the question is; how high would the bale be? If its only2 - 3 feet off the ground then I would need to make a path.

Thanks

 

[Z-Michigan]

Oh, another Michigan person! Great. I can make some dealer comments if you want, PM me.

A couple comments.

I should have mentioned that the issue with bales is that they are just big and awkward and dangerous if they fall. I have had a ton (literally, more or less) of wet clay in the FEL bucket and while it is much heavier than a bale, it is less worrisome to control. The bales wobble a bit and just stick way, way far out in front. And if they drop they can hurt someone, either right away or if they manage to roll downhill.

I don't fully understand your statement about "a pallet with a spear". Do you mean pallet forks with some added spear? Or maybe a wood pallet with a spear in the center to keep the bale in place? I'm not understanding.

Also, I made a bad assumption, which is assuming you want to move bales on the FEL. This is necessary to stack them two high (or three high with a monster size tractor), but it isn't necessary to just move them from A to B. If you can keep them in just a single layer, you can move bales with a spear that mounts on the three point hitch (3ph). This is a much cheaper option and does not require as big a tractor. It is slightly less convenient, but so much cheaper that it pretty much outweighs the convenience - IF you don't need to stack them, or lift them up high for purposes of loading into a truck or tossing over a fence.

Tires filled with rimguard is an excellent starting point, but you need serious weight on the rear end to move bales on a FEL spike. Rear blades vary a lot in weight. I would want at least 500lbs on the rear end for routine use. I have moved rounds with only a 200lb implement on the 3ph, but my tires are big (16.9x28) and filled with rimguard for a whopping 1500lbs of weight in the tires. Even then I know I should have had more weight on the back. A CUT will have smaller tires that won't weigh nearly that much filled, so it will need more 3ph ballast for safety.

You have probably already read this, but don't even think about moving a round bale with a bucket (by itself) or with pallet forks. It can be done, but is dangerous, because the bale can easily slip off and crush things, including you. The safe ways to move a bale are spears (rear or FEL) or a bale grapple which mounts to a bucket. The latter works great but is rarely seen on tractors below 60-70hp, and is a pricey way to go also.

100-200ft isn't that far so a smaller tractor may cut it for your use. How many bales will you be handling? I'm guessing about 60 per winter based on our consumption, but I'd like to know your expectations.

Ideally you would want to remove snow drifts before trying to move a bale, for both ease and safety. But any size tractor you're looking at will make short work of snow with a backblade and FEL bucket. I think you will want 4wd (MFWD) for traction, particularly if you go with a CUT. Tires haven't been mentioned yet but you may want to consider R1 ag tires, as they give the best traction on all soft surfaces, including snow. They can damage lawns though and don't last long on pavement. It all depends on your uses.

 

[Appygirl]

sorry double posted

 

[Appygirl]

Z I pm'd you. Yes, I am wanting ag tires, its sandy in this area!

Need to investgate opposions on round bale sizes in my area, since this can be my hang up in what I purchase.


Thanks Timber for the welcome.

 

[Egon]

This is all for Horses; right?

Sooo-- convert several of those barn types into Percheron's with a nice harness and get some work out of them!

 

[Bill Barrett]

Hi appy welcome

 

[Z-Michigan]

4x5 round bales vary in weight depending on the type of hay, how densely it was baled (varies on what brand and how new the baler is) and how wet it is. The average for alfalfa or grass as hay (not haylage, which you wouldn't feed a horse anyway!) is probably 700-900lbs for a 4x5 bale. Because the bale is so awkward and weight is so far forward of the FEL pivots, you would want a minimum of 1200-1500lbs FEL lift capacity to lift an average bale.

 

[scott_vt]

Mornin Appy,
Welcome to TBN ! Wow, you found someone from your neck of the woods rather quickly ! Im sure Z will help you out and get you pointed in the right direction.

The MF 1540 is a great tractor and would handle your bales on your 3 PT with a bale spear ! Use your FEL to get through the snow and just drop your bale where you feed your animals. Do some research on your local dealers and get some prices and then do some test driving !

Good Luck in your search !

 

[Appygirl]

I went tractor shopping again. Very nice dealer ship and I think I received good quote. Tell me your thoughts on this one.
New L3240 HST, LA724 loader, Ag tires(filled w/rim guard), grill, telescope for 3 pt
Back Blade , Bush hog 60" for a total of 21595 including tax. Now I'm not sure about the tax part, need to look into that, but if no tax then subtract 1245.00 from total. Funny thing though, I've been talking about the round bales and forgot to get the spear added.. I did a test drive and liked it. Then I went over to my distant neighbor and drove his larger Kubota; I'm starting to have fun now!!

I got a quote from another dealer 2 weeks ago, didn't really mesh with him to well, but here's the quote. Everything is the same except no bush hog, or blade 22240. His bush hog price is $1575 on sale for 1295, still a little pricey.


Hey Egon my Uncle had Percherons when I was kid. Loved them!
I thought I was driving them when helping with the hay. NOT! They already knew their job. I don't know what you call rake he was using; it would bring the hay up in the wagon.

c/ya

ps thanks for the welcome folks

 

[VAChesterfield]

Hi Appygirl. Like you, I have 10 acres & horses (four, with one of those away at summer camp right now). I'm a big believer in bigger is better, but money constraints made me look at the bottom end of the compact tractor world. I have a New Holland TC 30 (30hp) with FEL, and it has done everything I have needed to do.

One thing to consider when looking at the total cost of the tractor and attachments -- you might want to purchase a less expensive tractor and use the surplus funds to buy extra attachments, such as post hole digger, manure spreader, landscape rake, box blade, etc, etc that will make horse & land care easier and more fun.

The advice about handling round bales with a 3pt spear is right on the mark. Unless you need to stack them, the rear spear is the safer way to go (that's what I use).

Good luck in your search, and welcome to the board. Oh, and when you buy, let's have some pix of your new toy.

 

[Z-Michigan]

New L3240 HST, LA724 loader, Ag tires(filled w/rim guard), grill, telescope for 3 pt
Back Blade , Bush hog 60" for a total of 21595 including tax. Now I'm not sure about the tax part, need to look into that, but if no tax then subtract 1245.00 from total. Funny thing though, I've been talking about the round bales and forgot to get the spear added.. I did a test drive and liked it.

Price on that particular setup sounds reasonable to me. However, that size tractor/FEL is pretty iffy for handling round bales on the FEL. If you're happy with moving bales on the 3ph, that size should be just about right.

I would be curious which brand/model back blade that is. I suggest Woods for premium quality. I also recommend 2' wider than your tractor - so at least a 7', maybe an 8'. I got a 7' and my tractor is 6' wide and I can't use all the angle it's capable of.

I would recommend you take plenty of time shopping, see every possible model, and talk with lots of sales people. It's a big purchase with a range of options - be sure to get it right.

 

[Appygirl]

I'm just kidding here a bit, but what if I go get a 4x5 bale put in the back of the truck and take to the dealers and say " Okay lets see this if the tractor you recommended will lift this guy out and take for a ride about 100 ft".

Should I do this? I would love to see the look on their faces.
Should I call ahead of time to give them heads up IF I do this? I'm not sure if they'll see my sense of humor.

Appygirl

 

[Z-Michigan]

You could try that. If it's the right kind of dealer they won't bat an eyelash and will just go looking for a bale spear. Not all dealers have bale spears in stock all the time, so they may genuinely not be able to offer a test on the spot. However, if they squirm a lot, that would be a bad sign. One thing to bear in mind is that handling bales requires counterweight, and most tractors on the lot won't have filled tires - that's usually done after sale, so the dealer gets paid for it and can omit if someone wants them empty. The other thing to bear in mind is that a good dealer will know which models are reasonable to lift 4x5s and won't need to test it out. But, again, it might be fun to give it a try.

 

[canoetrpr]

Hi Appygirl:

We've got 5 horses and 26 acres - 14 in pasture and rest woods and lawn. I've got an L3400.

The main thing we do different from you is square bales instead of round.

JMHO - I'd want much much more tractor if I were to do round bales. Even though one thinks they will only use a 3PT spear you will find yourself in a situation where you have to load/unload from a truck or stack a round bale someplace.

I'm not suggesting you switch to square if you are setup and happy with round, just that you consider a much bigger tractor so that you can handle a round bale on a FEL SAFELY if you do need to stack the odd time.

If I were you I'd be looking at one of the larger Kubotas - say L5040 or one of the M series. At the Kioti end the DK45 is a nice machine.

If I was regularly stacking round bales with the FEL I would go even bigger.

Also bear in mind that there are advantages to a smaller tractor (other than less $$) when you are not moving round bales.

Just some things to consider in your fun quest.

 

[Egon]

Applygirl:

Lots of Farmers spend good money for a GPS control system that the horses come with on the basic model!

 

[Appygirl]

I've been using square bales for 5 years. I know there are pro and cons with round bales as far as waste goes, but it would be nice during the winter months. However in saying that, when you feed twice a day its good to look everyone over and check the water. Hmmm don't think I can pay cash for 40 plus hp, need to stay in range; plus I have to buy a trailer yet. While I'm not using it for tractor purposes it will be very handy to haul hay on!!!
I think buying used attachment is sounding better everytime and I will hope to find a good used trailer; I'm sure there is one out there for me.
Well there's lots to ponder over. Have a good night!

 

[VABlue]

I have no expereince whatsoever moving bales (other than lifting/stacking squares as a wee kid) but will offer this anyway... If you already know you'll be putting rounds on a trailer, you'll be better off with a tractor that can easily handle them on a FEL spear. I just don't think you'll always want to back the tractor onto the trailer to stick 'em on the 3pth...