Guess what this threads about!!!

[Bama67]

Guess what this threads about? Grapples!

I know there are alot of grapple threads, but most of what is talked about is about how the 48" wide can do the work of the wider ones, and in most cases is better because it focuses the pressure to a smaller area, for uprooting trees and such.

My question is, how narrow is TO narrow?

I have 50 acres of woods, and am working on clearing a long drive, and am starting off with a small area for a camp/eventual home site. I know there is other equipment better suited to this task, but that is not an option. I don't have the money, but I do have a nice 40hp tractor with a loader. And I enjoy hauling it over there and working on my days off, I am in no hurry, and so far I have made great progress with just the bucket. But I need me a grapple.

The two I am looking at is the Markham light duty grapple 48", that many on here have had good luck with.
The other is the Mini gator Extreme, which is 30" wide, and is much more robust/stouter design.
They cost the same, and the weight should be about the same.
I am sure the Gator will be better at uprooting the trees, which is what I will be using it the most for. But at 30" if I have to move brush piles and such, would it be able to get a good enough bite? What about moving old bales of hay? I am thinking it would be fine for moving trees with trunks, but I am not sure about pulling out brush and similar things.

What do you more experianced guys think?

 

[jimmysisson]

One thing that doesn't get talked about much with grapples is how well you can see what you're doing. My ground here is not flat, so the tractor and the grapple are often on different planes. I like being able to see the outer edge of the grapple on either side for picking up brush, objects, etc. My tractor is not one of the newer style with improved forward visibility, curved loader arms, etc. So I got a 5' grapple, also partly because my Ford quick-attach is quite wide to start with.
As far as having two clamp arms (mine does) it's helpful for big piles, and I can see what they're doing better, but I think you'd have more control with one. Get a grapple and find out - they're very useful.
Jim

 

[rd_macgregor]

I have a Kioti DK45SC that I have been using this fall to push over spruce and apple trees in an old, overgrown field. The trees range from maybe an inch in diameter to eight or ten inches (and 20+ ft high). With only minor bending of the FEL bucket edge, I have managed to down a whole lot of spruces. Like you, I have wondered what the best choice is for cleaning up all this mess will be.
I think the 48" width grapple rake is probably as narrow as I would go since I will be using it more often to collect, move and pile debris than to excavate/uproot trees and brush.
Having said that, I now wonder if my intended use favours a design like the Markham (which is more L-shaped) over the root rake design of, say, Horst Welding (which is more like a bulldozer blade in profile).
I'd love to hear from experienced users the pros and cons of different widths, steel types, tine spacing, rake profile and grapple setup.
I don't mean to hijack your thread, but maybe expand its scope a bit.
BOB

 

[Bama67]

I have a Kioti DK45SC that I have been using this fall to push over spruce and apple trees in an old, overgrown field. The trees range from maybe an inch in diameter to eight or ten inches (and 20+ ft high). With only minor bending of the FEL bucket edge, I have managed to down a whole lot of spruces. Like you, I have wondered what the best choice is for cleaning up all this mess will be.
I think the 48" width grapple rake is probably as narrow as I would go since I will be using it more often to collect, move and pile debris than to excavate/uproot trees and brush.
Having said that, I now wonder if my intended use favours a design like the Markham (which is more L-shaped) over the root rake design of, say, Horst Welding (which is more like a bulldozer blade in profile).
I'd love to hear from experienced users the pros and cons of different widths, steel types, tine spacing, rake profile and grapple setup.
I don't mean to hijack your thread, but maybe expand its scope a bit.
BOB

I don't mind, I could always use a little more grapple info. But I have done numerous searches on here, and have read alot about the different steel types, spacing etc, I just never could find anything on the topic of the really narrow grapple, like the 30" wide markham Mini gator extreme.

But so far, unless convinced otherwise I am leaning to the mini gator, mainly because my enitre property is heavily wooded. There is not much brush, mainly just trees, so the only brush piles I would have to move would be the trees I have already pushed down. But sometimes I move old bales of hay and whatnot, I just wonder if it would give me enough bit to do that.

And I am with you about bulldozing trees. My tractor is your tractors smaller step-brother, Bobcat CT440. lol. I couldn't believe the size trees I am able to push over, then pull up if I just take my time at work at it. I wouldn't be able to if these trees were in the regular Alabama red clay, but I am deep in the woods, and that old loose dark soil, and shallow roots, I am able to push up some pretty good size trees. I can do this well enough with the bucket edge, but once the trees are on the ground, I can't move them around unless I push a little, back up, push, back up, push some more. I need a grapple to just grab them and go. But with the grapple, it would also be easier just to pop them out of the ground by the roots, and keep on truckin'.

And now that I have been looking at them alot, I WANT ONE BAD!

 

[Bama67]

Okay, couldn't find nothing here, but did a search on google and found a thread about the mini gator vs 48" light duty.

I think I am leaning now to the 48" light duty with extra spacer tines on the bottom. I feel like I will get a wider range of use from it. And I also figured out it opens several inches wider than the gator, and that could make all the difference with some items. Still on the fence though.

 

[rd_macgregor]

I'd pretty well decided that 48" was a good width for me, but I wasn't sure if the extended tooth design on the Markham would work as well for popping up roots vs. the more dozer-blade profile of some other makes. I was concerned about both leverage and durability if I used the unit to actually uproot/push over trees rather than just grabbing them to dispose of.
BOB

 

[IslandTractor]

Mini Gator vs 48 inch grapple for dealing mostly with trees...good question.

I don't have any experience with the mini gator but I know what it is and have seen the photos. I do have a lot of experience using a 48 inch grapple on essentially the same tractor you are using (mine is the Kioti version with the KL401 loader). With brush the grapple wins though the mini gator could certainly manage brush. The issue with trees is whether or not the mini gator really has a significant advantage. I take out trees quite frequently though my major battle is with brush. When I need to take out a tree I use the grapple elevated to about 9 feet or so to push on the tree until I have exposed some roots then I back off and use the grapple to get under the roots. I can do that with the 48 inch root grapple without much difficulty so I don't know how much more efficient a mini gator would be. I think the biggest factor is the weight of the tractor (for pushing) and the strength of the loader (for uprooting). I would think the shape and size of the grapple would be less of an issue especially when comparing a 30 inch to a 48 inch grapple. Both would have a big advantage over a six foot grapple.

The mini gator is based on the trapazoidal shaped stump bucket and those buckets seem to get mixed reviews. They do allow you to focus a lot of power in a small area but they are pretty much limited to that one task.

I don't think there is a clear answer to your question. If I had to do it again I would definitely go with the grapple as it is far more versatile but I cannot say that it would do a better job of the task you outline in your original post.

 

[MarkV]

No experience here but it would seem that 30" would be getting pretty close to total space between FEL arms on a 40 hp tractor. I believe I would like a little more protection from branches and such that the 48" grapple would offer.

MarkV

 

[Bama67]

I have made up my mind to get he 48" grapple with the extra spacers. Now hopefully my hydraulic remotes will be in sometime this century so I can order it.

 

[Ken45101]

Looking at the photos (and skimpy info) on the Markham site, I can't really tell how the Gator/Mini-gatror is different from the standard Markham root grapple. Can someone enlighten me?

From all the reading I've done, I'm probably going to order a 66" standard duty Markham unit with extra spacers. This is primarily for a JD 325 skid steer but I might also use it on my Kubota M5040 tractor. I know some have suggested that narrower is better, but I do want to be able to clear a path for the skid which is 72" wide (standard bucket is 78").

I've looked for more specific skid steer/grapple info on the heavy equipment sites but there is not much discussion of specifics on those sites.

Ken

 

[IslandTractor]

Looking at the photos (and skimpy info) on the Markham site, I can't really tell how the Gator/Mini-gatror is different from the standard Markham root grapple. Can someone enlighten me?sites.

Main difference is that it is narrower (36 inches vs 48) and it has a trapazpoidal "foot print" rather than rectangular with the grapple. I guess in theory it is built like a stump bucket to focus all force right in the middle rather than across the whole grapple.

 

[dangerdoc]

Re: Guess what this threads about? Grapples!

I know there are alot of grapple threads, but most of what is talked about is about how the 48" wide can do the work of the wider ones, and in most cases is better because it focuses the pressure to a smaller area, for uprooting trees and such.

My question is, how narrow is TO narrow?

I have 50 acres of woods, and am working on clearing a long drive, and am starting off with a small area for a camp/eventual home site. I know there is other equipment better suited to this task, but that is not an option. I don't have the money, but I do have a nice 40hp tractor with a loader. And I enjoy hauling it over there and working on my days off, I am in no hurry, and so far I have made great progress with just the bucket. But I need me a grapple.

The two I am looking at is the Markham light duty grapple 48", that many on here have had good luck with.
The other is the Mini gator Extreme, which is 30" wide, and is much more robust/stouter design.
They cost the same, and the weight should be about the same.
I am sure the Gator will be better at uprooting the trees, which is what I will be using it the most for. But at 30" if I have to move brush piles and such, would it be able to get a good enough bite? What about moving old bales of hay? I am thinking it would be fine for moving trees with trunks, but I am not sure about pulling out brush and similar things.

What do you more experianced guys think?

I have the narrower markham bucket.

I bought it because where I cut wood, things are tight and a foot narrower bucket does help in a tight spot. I also plan on using it on a bobcat from time to time and wanted a bucket that would stand up to a more powerful machine.

When scooping up brush, it clears an area as wide as my tractor. For rocks, the narrow heavy duty rake enters the earth with minimal resistance making it easy to get down under the rocks.

I have moves logs, rocks and even dug out a few small trees, the heavy tines have not bent.

So far, I am happy with it.

 

[Ken45101]

Main difference is that it is narrower (36 inches vs 48) and it has a trapazpoidal "foot print" rather than rectangular with the grapple. I guess in theory it is built like a stump bucket to focus all force right in the middle rather than across the whole grapple.

Thanks for the explanation!

The big gator looks bigger than I want, and the smaller one looks smaller than I want. I've gone ahead and ordered the 60" Extreme duty grapple (non gator). It's supposed to ship tomorrow.


Ken

 

[J_J]

If you will be digging up roots and digging out rocks. you might consider more of a root rake/grapple combination. Root rakes are usually stronger, and there is nothing to inhibit the tines from raking through the ground to do a more effective job at root work. Grapple rakes , have a flat bottom to get under brush piles. It sound like you need a root rake grapple.

The third picture looks like the right combination for root work, and the ability to grab a rather large pile of debris/limbs, etc.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you will be digging up roots and digging out rocks. you might consider more of a root rake/grapple combination. Root rakes are usually stronger, and there is nothing to inhibit the tines from raking through the ground to do a more effective job at root work. Grapple rakes , have a flat bottom to get under brush piles. It sound like you need a root rake grapple.

The third picture looks like the right combination for root work, and the ability to grab a rather large pile of debris/limbs, etc.

JJ, I think your basic point is correct and bulldozers do have the "claw" type root rake for that reason. However, it is not a very good idea IMO to use a CUT FEL for that type of "rip through the ground as you drive forward" type of work as the FEL arms are too long and not sturdy enough to withstand the forces involved (note that bulldozer arms are short and stubby as they don't need to lift anything and are purpose built for root rake work). In my experience the best way to deal with roots while using an FEL on a CUT is to identify the root or just very gingerly "bulldoze" at slow speed until you engage the root then to use curl/lift rather than forward motion of the CUT to get the root out. CUT FELs are really designed more as loaders and not bulldozers. My point is that it is not the grapple style that limits what a CUT FEL can do but rather the design and engineering of the FEL itself. I'd be more concerned with damaging the FEL arms than the grapple regardless of grapple style.

 

[Ken45101]

J J,

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or someone else.

I strongly considered the clamshell type for the reasons you mentioned and for being able to clamp smaller bunches. I have a lot of wild grape vines in the woods that I plan to pull out. But I probably won't be digging a lot of roots with it although I may do some trees/stumps.

But I'll be using the grapple primarily on a skid steer to clear brush and junk in the woods. If I really want to pull roots, I'll probably do it with the teeth on a box blade.

Ken