Guns! - I promised (yes it's rural related..)

TresCrows · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Hmmm, such a question always likely to cause controversy /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. My answer, Glock in .40 cal S&W. There are prettier guns and pistols and there are those that are more accurate and there are those that other things to other people but when it comes to down right reliability under all conditions with little care an out of the box Glock is hard to beat. Mine are pre ban weapons, I have two. I like the new Sig round as well, it packs a wallop and the .45 in a Glock is certainly a good choice always. I think my .40 cal carries 17 rounds, a bunch anyway. I hand load my home defense rounds and load the weapon with two solids on top and then follow up with hollow points. I keep the pistol with the clip in it but not engaged and the chamber empty and the gun not cocked. If I had kids it would be entirely different. Kids and pistols are not a good combination. In that case, a shot gun with a legal short barrel and a trigger lock might be best.
Why do people sell their guns when the have a child? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif You could buy another safe. My fondest growing up memories are with my dad and brother and cousins out shooting an learning to be riflemen. Strange none of us attacked a school or sniped innocents buying gasoline. Teach a kid about guns and fairplay and he will grow up well. J

ejb · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

>>I have narrowed my focus to .45 only.

The 1911 is a nice gun, but I definetely wouldn't choose a .45 for walking around at night, in my own house, potentially shooting at someone or something that I can't quite see. A .45 can travel thru several walls at least until it find something to stop it.

From a pure home defense point of view some sort of shotgun would probably be a better choice...aim it in the general direction of what you are shooting at, and the spray won't penetrate nearly as lethally as a .45 slug.

Henro · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

r0GuE,

Personally I have nothing against guns...even sometimes pick up one of the gun magazines when waiting for my wife in the supermarket... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Then I remember my days as a young boy... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Curious...adventurous...just like everyone else...sneaking upstairs and taking a rifle out of my grandfather's gun case...you know the drill.

Occasionallly I think it might be useful to have some shells in the house for the shotgun I have locked up downstairs in the basement. For the same reasons you have stated. And I live closer to the "big city" than you do... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The thing that keeps me from doing anything are the stitistics I think I have read. They might not even be accurate! But I have come to believe that the danger of having a loaded shotgun around the house is greater than the danger of having the need to use it. And I don't have any young boys around...my two girls are around 30...

For some reason or another, I believe that if you look at the statistics for deaths by firearm inside private homes, that most of the time those killed/wounded are family members or friends, rather than criminals intending harm to the family. Is this true? I don't know for sure, but it feels like it is.... Maybe someone here knows the real statistics.

In my case, I am afraid that in a moment of panic [I don't feel like I panic easily, but there is alway the first time...] I would make a mistake and end up harming [or worse] someone I love ...[ sounds like time to pull out that old hanky.. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif ]. I do have a lot of faith in my ability to screw up, sometimes at the wosrt possible time.

If I were worried about break ins, I would put motion detection lights on all sides of the house and take some other preventive measures, like a bugular alarm, or something similar. The goal would be to keep those kinds of people away to begin with.

Now this is just me, and we are all different and have different needs. I like the thought of having the protection of a loaded gun around. Keep thinking if it is not loaded, then a baseball bat is probably more useful. Gun upstairs and shells downstairs...less useful...

So I have decided to play the odds in my favor and to not have a loaded gun availble. Man, I don't even have a baseball bat!

Is it true that most deaths/injuries from guns in private homes are not intended? I believe it but actually don't know if it is true or not. If it were the other way around, I just might change my thinking pretty quick... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Guess this is the other side of the coin speaking here...

I say go for the shotgun... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dummy · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

If I were worried about break ins, I would put motion detection lights on all sides of the house and take some other preventive measures, like a bugular alarm, or something similar. The goal would be to keep those kinds of people away to begin with.
 A well trained dog fits into this category, plus you get an extra companion. Usually works alot better than the burglar alarm too, no electricity or batteries needed. Of course, the clean up side can be more work.

Hambone · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

More people are killed by empty guns than loaded ones. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

EdKing · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

I have to agree with the others, for home defense, nothing beats a shotgun. If you are insistant on a pistol, look at the .40 S&W. Fits on a 9mm action, hits almost as hard as a .357. My pistol of choice is a Berreta model 96. Same as the 92 (which our Milatary uses) except chambered in the .40 S&W. Load it up with Federal HydraShocks, and you have a serious man stopper.

Egon · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Rogue; have you considered the use of some of the spray deterents that can incapicate an intruder.

Short guns require practice and lots of it to be accurate. If you do insist on short gun I'd go .22. Much less collateral damage and much more effictive than most people realize. Also almost no recoil and ammunition is inexpensive compared to the larger calibers.

I know I'll get roasted about stopping power but that would be my choice.

Egon

chim · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

While I don't feel undergunned with a 9MM and warm JHP's, there is something to be said for using the largest caliber available. I have been present twice when someone was shot with a .22. One was a teenage boy (shot in the bicep) and the other was a 30-something male (shot through the calf). Neither knew he was shot until told by another person. Kinda convinced me to stay away from a .22 as a defensive weapon. When most people would face a life-or-death situation, they would not have the ability to pop someone charging them, possibly firing their own gun, through an eye socket. Second thought, mebbe the 9MM should be replaced by the 870..........................chim

Bob_Skurka · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

If you are talking about a gun that will be fired INSIDE your home then you have to consider the fact that even a little 22 round will penetrate several walls. A 9mm, .38/.357 or .45acp will go through 8 to 10 sheets of drywall. A shotgun with 00 buckshot will easily do the same. All that said, if you shoot at guy in your house, AND YOU MISS, will your child's room be behind him? Will your wife be in the closet 2 rooms behind him? And will you shoot someone you did not intend to shoot?

Personally I have something in the neighorhood of 15 to 20 guns in the house at any given time, I also keep guns at work for protection.

There are 2 rounds I can recommend, one is the MAG-SAFE brand the other is the GLAZER SAFETY SLUG. Both are rounds loaded with fragmental bullets. There is ZERO chance of over penetration because these rounds fall apart AFTER they make contact. So if you hit someone they virtually explode inside the intruder causing massive tissue damage and shock. If you hit a wall, they shatter like a plate glass window and by the time they are through the wall on the other side they are pretty much worthless, they might hurt someone, but the person on the other side of the wall won't die.

 NOW FOR SOME COMMON SENSE FOR COUNTRY FOLK WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT INTRUDERS Take a FEW steps to protect yourself.
#1--Motion Sensor Lights.
#2--Burglar Alarm System with stickers posted on at least 2 windows/doors on EVERY side of your house.
#3--A Dog. Doesn't have to be big, but bigger is typically better. If you like them, buy 2 dogs. At least one should be an inside dog.
#4--Keep your landscaping next to the house trimmed and neat so that there are no "hiding" places for people trying to break in.
#5--determine which room or rooms in your house are "safe rooms." A safe room is where you will go when there is trouble, often it is the master bedroom. It should not be easily accessable to an intruder from outside.
#6--Install a SOLID CORE DOOR with a DEADBOLT in the saferoom. And do NOT FORGET to reinforce the door frame and door jamb.

The first 4 points above are DETERRANTS to use to decrease your chances of being an unlucky victim. Criminals typically pick easy houses. Make your house a hard target, not an easy one.

Points 5 & 6 will help buy you time to make rational choices should the worst occur.

Bob_Skurka · Dec 3, 2003

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

ejb. . . regarding your .45 versus Shotgun . . . sorry to say but your ballistics are simply wrong. I'm a former competitive shooter, all of my handguns are .45acp, most are custom made. I also shot a fair amount of Trap and Sporting Clays with a bevy of 12 gauges. I used to load all my own rounds, handgun and shotgun. I'd easily go through 2 to 3 cases of 12 gauge shells a week when I was active, add 300 to 500 rounds of 45acp a week out of a handgun to that. For a brief time I also supplied several police departments with specialty ammunition. I know ballistics pretty well, or at least I used to when I was active in it.

Inside a house, a 12 gauge will cause far more damage than a 45 and it will penetrate as many sheets of drywall as a 45. Anyone who wants to use a 12 gauge in the house AND is NOT concerned about collateral damage should use a SHORT barrel, cylinder choke gun. The reality is that a 12 gauge will only have a spread of 2" to 3" (maximum) when you are talking about distances inside your house and that assumes an 18" to 22" barrelled shotgun with a fully opened cylinder choke (no choke at all). That 2" hole of 00 buckshot will penetrate every wall it hits until it hits a stud or two, or runs into a person or furniture or travels through about 8 sheets of drywall.

I would suggest you test me on this. Buy 4 sheets of drywall at the lumber yard, build yourself a several "mock walls" about 2' by 4' and line them up with a couple feet of space (or more) between them. Fasten them together so they can't fall over like dominoes, and take a few shots at them. BUT MAKE DARN SURE YOU HAVE A SOLID BACKSTOP BEHIND THAT ROW OF FAKE WALLS BECAUSE YOU WILL FIND YOUR BULLETS OR YOUR BUCKSHOT BURIED IN THAT DIRTPILE YOU USED AS YOUR BACKSTOP. After you do that, reconsider your choices for an INDOOR defense round.

Me, I'll take John Browning's design of the Colt Pattern 45.ACP for one simple reason, it has the highest FIRST HIT potential of any gun ever made. And I load them with fragmenting Mag Safe and Glazer Safety Slugs because I don't want to shoot my dogs or my family if I miss the intruder. The bullets are EXPENSIVE, a 6 pack will cost you what a box of 20 premimum bullets cost. But isn't your safety and your life worth a few extra dollars?

By the way, the fragmental bullets are VERY LIGHT weight and recoil is about 50% LESS than a conventional bullet for a similar caliber, so even your wife won't have trouble with the recoil.