Guns! - I promised (yes it's rural related..)

[RanchMan]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Henro -

Bob_Skurka is dead on (pun intended) when it comes to the statistics thing. There are plenty of inaccurate statistics regarding how "bad" guns are in the home. When one looks at the real numbers and scenarios, well, I won't restate all that Bob did...

From the personal experience side - A close friends grandmother was brutally murdered by an intruder (blood all over the walls, etc.). She did not have a gun. Would it have saved her life? Maybe - Maybe not - but it COULDN'T have been any worse than it turned out (she was killed with a knife.)

Myself? I will not go in to details about my life history - other than to say once you have an experience where you are able to fend off an attack on yourself and your family because you were armed, your perspective changes with regards to how "dangerous" a gun in the home is. I pray this DOESN'T happen to you - but don't think it won't - the reality is that at some point in your life you or a family member are very likely to become a crime victim - just pray it isn't a violent crime like rape or murder.

I'm not suggesting that anyone who doesn't have a gun in the home run out and get one. There are lots of things to consider - like are you willing (not wanting, WILLING) to use lethal force to stop a rape, murder, etc. Some people aren't - and those are the folks that SHOULDN'T have a gun in the home for protection because they would be gambling their life on a bluff.

Gun ownership is a very personal decision - all I'm saying is to make it using good information and considering ALL of the ramifications and potential consequences and not just what the popular media puts out because the statistics you are currently "playing" are inaccurate and don't reflect the positive outcomes or the circumstances behind each case.

 

[fenneran]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Just to reiterate on thing in Bob's post. My CCP class instructor made one statement (out of many) that stuck with me: "There are no deaf robbers". The sound of that shotgun being racked is universal, and totally fearsom to an intruder. A friend's kids were home alone a number of years ago and someone came on the screened porch and was jiggling the door (the curatins were closed). The kids cocked the shotgun (with no ammo BTW) and heard the intruder busting his way back OUT the door pronto! My wife doesn't like to shoot, but the shotgun is always ready to rack.

Frank

 

[EastTexFrank]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring. For years, while living in the big city, my "house gun" was a .357 S&W 686 with Glaser Safety slugs. Simple to use with no slide to rack and no safety to mess with, especially when in a high stress situation. My limited experience with semi-automatics is that they take a lot more practice to use well and a really lot of practice to use really well. Unless you are familiar with them and devote the time to practice, I'm not sure they are the best choice.
Now that we're out in the country, my first line of defense is 3 inside dogs. Nobody or nothing can come within 20yards of the house without being detected. They're great watch dogs but lousy guard dogs, they're far too friendly, but they will announce the arrival of any visitor who trespasses on "their" territory. As back-up I have a 20 gauge Winchester Defender (pump) loaded with #4 Buck. I have fired it inside a building at night, in the dark, and I can tell you it is absolutely terrifying. Apart from the sound of the slide, the noise when fired is deafening and 2 foot of flame shooting out the end of the barrel will scare the hell out of you never mind anyone you might be shooting at.

 

[gsganzer]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

I agree with the shotgun for home defense. I use a shotgun for a primary deterrent and a strategically placed handgun as a backup.

I shoot often and feel confident with a semi-auto handgun and this is what I keep at hand. However, I firmly believe that a revolver is a better choice for those that can't find practice time at the range. I can't imagine anyone who's not proficient finding the mind, during a stressful situation, to rack the slide when a round jams or fails to fire.

BTW: I bet this thread tops 100 responses. This is a topic that many hold strong opinions about.

 

[Hambone]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

<font color="red"> So the question... I have narrowed my focus to .45 only. If I were to go 9mm it would be the HK P7e, but recent events have me looking at the domestic products (no I don't want to go there with this thread ). I also know that some prefer shotguns, but I don't like that idea for close quarters. S I thought it would be fun to see what the TBN'ers think with respect to .45's. Gotta be alot of gun enthusiasts on the board. </font>


I like the Colt 1911

 

[MikePA]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

<font color="blue"> I like the Colt 1911 </font>
What's one of these sell for?

 

[TresCrows]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

"As long as we're considering alternatives to the venerable .45 ACP, why stop at the .40 Shorter & Weaker when the 10mm is alive and doing well?"

Ha, Ha, that is funny /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. J

 

[TresCrows]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Henro, I like you, I really do /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and I often say to myself when I read your posts how you have such a different take on things and are so fair minded but it is obvious that you really did not grow up with guns as a part of your everyday life. Gun safety is passed on from generation to generation, it is something that is taught and is a right of passage in some cultures including the one I come from.
I listen to people all the time how if an intruder came into their house they would do this or that--here is what I would do if I could---RUN like the dickens /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. You see, there is no stereo, no money, no thing in my house that is worth a life, not mine or the intruders. I would just go to a neighbor or run till I could not run any more or something. BUT--BUT, I tell you what, if I felt my wife or my dogs or such as that were threatned and I were backed into a corner then all Hades would break loose because trust me---I not only have guns--but I know how to use them--effectively and with deadly efficiency.
A can of pepper spray---okkkkkkkkkk. J

 

[Hakim]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

1) Do not buy or keep a .45 or any other handgun in your home, UNLESS you are willing to spend time at the range on a REGULAR BASIS, to be able to use that weapon.

Most untrained people could not hit a garbage can at 20 feet with a .45 auto, even with a dozen attempts. Heck, most trained shooters couldn't either! If you REALLY mean to defend your home with a .45, and have no other training, take a defensive handgun course. It'll be a lot of fun and you'll learn what you really need to know.

2) Go to a range and actually put 200 or 300 rounds thru each of the guns you are considering to purchase. As you can tell, everybody has their druthers. In the end, you have to feel totally comfortable with what is in your hand.

3) Buy and keep on hand one of the SureFire flashlights. For those who don't know, these are extremely high intensity lights that will instantly BLIND anyone who looks at them. You just can't look at that bright a light. I keep one in each of my vehicles, and gave one to my wife for her purse. At night, this in itself is an effective defensive "weapon" and will likely give you enough time to make an escape.

You can also get one to fit on a Glock or a 12 guage. Although SureFires are very pricey, around $80 for a hand flashlight and a couple of hundred for the gun lights, they are a tremendous aide to effective shooting, specially at night.

My own choice at home, a 12 gauge. Works good.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

MikePA . . . used you can get a good shooter for $300 or a bit more. New, depending on the manufacturer and the model you might be looking $595 to $1200.

I personally like the Safari Arms Matchmaster for a full size 1911 pattern gun, though for a home security version you won't want target sights. They made up a couple of custom guns for me with beryllium frames that I love, in fact I have serial numbers xxx001 and 002 of the series. Wilson Combat makes excellent and 100% reliable varients of the 1911, you will find it very difficult to beat their quality and they make up guns for many high profile shooters. In the mass produced products, Springfield Armory and Kimber make pretty good ones as well, and both offer varients for different purposes. And don't forget going with the original, it is hard to beat a stainless steel Colt. I keep an Officer's model in my desk, Magnaported, custom trigger, extended no-snag safety, extended beavertail, Novak sights, and a beadblasted top of the slide so there is no glare to my eye.

For an in house gun, that is likely to be shot in the dark if it is fired, the Mag-na-port is an option I would not recommend to novice shooters. In the dark the trapezoidal top ports spew flames straight up into the air to reduce the recoil, it could be detrimental in a night fight. Further, there is no need to reduce recoil if you use Mag Safe or Glaser Safety Slugs because they are so light in recoil to begin with being a low mass high velocity round the kenetic energy is high on the target but not in the form of recoil in your hand.

Novak no-snag sights are great, you can get them with tritium dots that glow in the dark for about 10 years without ever being exposed to light. There are also other tritium dot sights, but I like taking the Novaks and having the tritiums inserted into them.