GVWR With vs. Without Tongue Weight

[Builder]

"Is my thinking correct here? Or will The Man realize that he just let an absolutely 100% identical trailer pass... and allow me to drive away as well no worse for wear? "

No, you're not crazy, and any policeman worth his salt will assume nothing and base his authority on nothing but the stickered rating. The only thing that the copper knows is what is on that sticker. The axle ratings are always respected in every example. Fair enough.

The GVWR sticker is sometimes the sum of the axle ratings and sometimes not. Whatever the GVWR sticker says is the official rating that you can't exceed regardless whether it is the sum of the axles.

Here's a thought for you and maybe a thought the cop might have. Perhaps the frame of the trailer is not strong enough to handle as much weight as the combined axle ratings. Perhaps the trailer frame is made of popsicle sticks and rated accordingly. The cop is no structural engineer, he reads stickers and will be right to zap you for exceeding any stickered rating period.

You will be be legally able to tow more weight by buying a trailer with a higher stickered GVWR even if it has the same axles as another trailer with a lower GVWR. Coming up with some funky excuse as to why you shouldn't have to respect the stickered GVWR is not a position I would envy.

here's the thing I don't agree with in your example: If on my 18,400lb trailer I put a load on it which causes the trailer to weigh 18,400 lbs, yet it plainly states I have (2) 8,000lb GAWR axles (but a GVWR of 18,400lbs), wouldn't he add the axle ratings together and fine me for being 2,400lbs overweight?

Or would he come to his senses and realize the trailer was rated that way to allow for up to 15% TW?

 

[Dougster]

well, it depends on the LEO, and that's where they GET YA!!! What is his "allowance" on TW? If it's 15-20%, then he's "lenient". If he holds the line at 10%, then he's "strict". The "tail" that will "wag the dog" here is the TW rating of your hitch. That's usually the weakest link in the formula. Tell me what it is. Then you will begin to see the light through the clouds. Most are ~1,000lbs. That and the max GCWR of your truck need to be known, without question, then you can begin your quest into buying the right trailer.

My truck is a 2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD w/towing package... no issues there with any dump trailer size still under consideration. But I want to emphasize again that I am speaking to the hypothetical. I have no intention of overloading any trailer or applying too much weight to any tongue. I'm really just trying to understand why some trailer manufacturers do this and some do not... and if there is any legal aspect method to their madness.

It would be nice to have that answer before I buy.

Dougster

 

[Builder]

My truck is a 2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD w/towing package... no issues there with any dump trailer size still under consideration. But I want to emphasize again that I am speaking to the hypothetical. I have no intention of overloading any trailer or applying too much weight to any tongue. I'm really just trying to understand why some trailer manufacturers do this and some do not... and if there is any legal aspect method to their madness.

It would be nice to have that answer before I buy.

Dougster

Probably to keep enough ambiguity in the system to trick the undereducated into paying fines they don't have to.

You'd think the government would want people to all to stop smoking, right?
Nonsense!!! They make billions of dollars in tax revenues on tobacco!!! Why would they want to stop people from smoking?

Now why would they want to make it easy to understand trailer towing laws? There's millions of dollars to be made on trailer towing fines!

 

[Builder]

My truck is a 2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD w/towing package... no issues there with any dump trailer size still under consideration. But I want to emphasize again that I am speaking to the hypothetical. I have no intention of overloading any trailer or applying too much weight to any tongue. I'm really just trying to understand why some trailer manufacturers do this and some do not... and if there is any legal aspect method to their madness.

It would be nice to have that answer before I buy.

Dougster

Probably to make their trailers sound heavier duty than if they just rated them as the GAWR of all axles added together. They 9CAM) assume a 15% TW. to me 15% added for TW is pushing it, because most vehicles don't have a hitch rated to handle 15% of their trailer's weight. They have too light of a rating on the hitch.

This brings me to a final point I would add.

I'm a "TW worry wort". I got nailed for excess TW once. This time around, I made sure to buy a hitch with extra TW, commensurate with what my truck can handle (1,600 lbs).

 

[Dougster]

Here's a thought for you and maybe a thought the cop might have. Perhaps the frame of the trailer is not strong enough to handle as much weight as the combined axle ratings. Perhaps the trailer frame is made of popsicle sticks and rated accordingly. The cop is no structural engineer, he reads stickers and will be right to zap you for exceeding any stickered rating period.

I think you mean something a little different than what you said... but I get your point: That a GVWR higher than the sum of the axle ratings may intentionally signal a better/stronger frame structure. Conversely, that a GVWR only matching the sum of the axle ratings may signal a weaker frame structure.(Please correct me if I'm wrong on your point) I know of no company that rates its trailer GVWRs lower than the sum of its stated axle ratings... even though physically the trailer might be built on higher rated axles (example: certain Downeaster trailers).

You will be be legally able to tow more weight by buying a trailer with a higher stickered GVWR even if it has the same axles as another trailer with a lower GVWR. Coming up with some funky excuse as to why you shouldn't have to respect the stickered GVWR is not a position I would envy.

That goes back to the point of my original question. Am I buying myself some legal margin or insurance here? Sounds like you think I am.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

here's the thing I don't agree with in your example: If on my 18,400lb trailer I put a load on it which causes the trailer to weigh 18,400 lbs, yet it plainly states I have (2) 8,000lb GAWR axles (but a GVWR of 18,400lbs), wouldn't he add the axle ratings together and fine me for being 2,400lbs overweight? Or would he come to his senses and realize the trailer was rated that way to allow for up to 15% TW?

That's the entire question in a nutshell.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Probably to keep enough ambiguity in the system to trick the undereducated into paying fines they don't have to. You'd think the government would want people to all to stop smoking, right? Nonsense!!! They make billions of dollars in tax revenues on tobacco!!! Why would they want to stop people from smoking? Now why would they want to make it easy to understand trailer towing laws? There's millions of dollars to be made on trailer towing fines!

Oh, you'll get no argument from me... but this is really a trailer manufacturers question as far as I can see. Is Cam trying to pull a fast one? Or is there really something to increasing the stickered GVWR other than pure marketing???

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Probably to make their trailers sound heavier duty than if they just rated them as the GAWR of all axles added together. They 9CAM) assume a 15% TW. to me 15% added for TW is pushing it, because most vehicles don't have a hitch rated to handle 15% of their trailer's weight. They have too light of a rating on the hitch. This brings me to a final point I would add. I'm a "TW worry wort". I got nailed for excess TW once. This time around, I made sure to buy a hitch with extra TW, commensurate with what my truck can handle (1,600 lbs).

Oh yeah... right! Go ahead and make me even MORE paranoid than I already am!!!

And yes, the 15% is a bit comical to me.

Dougster

 

[Builder]

Oh yeah... right! Go ahead and make me even MORE paranoid than I already am!!!

And yes, the 15% is a bit comical to me.

Dougster

Then there you have it. If 15% sounds high (or is too high for your truck anyway) then simply take it into consideration.

I wouldn't let it be a deterrant to buying a trailer you like. Just keep in mind it might be a tad "overrated".

Could bail your azz out of a jamb with a reasonable cop, though...... think about it.

It's the dumb ones that might hassle you.

 

[Dougster]

Then there you have it. If 15% sounds high (or is too high for your truck anyway) then simply take it into consideration. I wouldn't let it be a deterrant to buying a trailer you like. Just keep in mind it might be a tad "overrated". Could bail your azz out of a jamb with a reasonable cop, though...... think about it. It's the dumb ones that might hassle you.

I like my 10K equipment trailer right at or near 1,000 lbs tongue weight. I'll strive to do the same with my new dump trailer. That way I avoid having to use my weight distributing hitch, although technically, anything over 7,500 lbs is supposed to require it. Seems I am the only one that ever even read that... and it looks and rides just fine... but I suppose The Man could nail me on that little gem as well.

Paranoia. It never ends.

Dougster