Flail Mower Hammers or Y knives

[Howard Farm]

Hello,

I have just had an Orsi 209 flail mulcher delivered with Y knives, however I expected hammers. I'm trying to decide to have them changed.
I want a nice finish on my lawn areas around the house but also want to promote good pasture health in the paddock. I will also be using it for clearing of regrowth where there is a strong possibility of hitting tree stumps and branches, and small and large rocks.

We tested the Y knives on the lawn and it cut successfully but with serrations.

Any experience or opinions are appreciated

Cheers

 

[jenkinsph]

Check out this thread and pm leonz he will tell you everything there is to know about flail mowers. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/254531-finishing-mowers.html

 

[Howard Farm]

Will do. Thanks.

 

[greg_g]

Hammers are for rough stuff. I don't think it realistic to expect a finish cut from them.

//greg//

 

[mikehaugen]

Check out this thread and pm leonz he will tell you everything there is to know about flail mowers. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/254531-finishing-mowers.html

what are trying to do to this guy, now he is going to be convinced that he needs to have 3 different flail mowers.

 

[allen in texas]

What is "quay" I just went to Orsi's website to look at the flails. I am assuming that yours is the Farmer 209??? The literature said "Suitable for cleaning quay and side of ditches."
I cut my lawn at times with my flail. Yes, it leaves the serrations but it looks nice from a short distance away. I wouldn't want to cut too short with the flail because cuts the runners of the grass (common burmuda)
One other thing, the rotor, at least on my machine, is different if it is set up for hammers. I can run cup knives for grass and the "V" knives for the heavier stuff if I want but not hammers. YMMV.

 

[leonz]

If you are getting serrations when mowing the mower is set too low.
You need to change the position of the rear roller and lower it
(the rear roller one bolt hole on each side of the flail mower.
If you are fortunate enough to have the screw worm adjusters
for front and rear turn turn them out 3 turns to raise the rear roller
and see how the lawn looks after that and adjust it accordingly.

If you change to hammers it will not cut very well, where it will simply
beat everything down as the grass will simply be impacted and pushed
over by the hammers.

The Scoop Knives work very well but the Side Slicers are better in my opinion
for fine turf and heavy brush.

Oh and I wish to welcome you as the newest member for the Southern Hemispere
contingent of the Flail Mower Nation of Australia.

Iron Horse is our first honorary Member.

 

[leonz]

Hey Allen,

The word Quay refers to an earthern dock/wharf for boats and ships.

 

[Howard Farm]

Thankyou all.

I got to page 50 of the suggested thread last night ...only 70 to go! Don't worry its all good stuff.
Thanks Greg_g and Leonz - I spoke to the good blokes of ASP (they make/sell hammers and knives here - I think Ironhorse has referred to them) and they agree with you so I think I stick with them. I'll only know for sure if I do and if I change them I'll never know.
The roller was set as high as can as it was straight of the truck when we ran a cut of about 2m to have a look. I'll be setting it up properly (hopefully) on the weekend and the skids put on (after reading pages 51 to 127 of the thread!).
Don't worry MikeHaugen I already know I need 3 flail mowers......need and want are the same thing right! Just need a bigger shed to store them in.
Hopefully I haven't made the wrong comprimises by going the full verge mower version. We have a steep ridges with tracks cut into the sides so I wanted to be able to cut the top and bottom sides. After reading the thread, the amount of float I'm going to get has me concerned...but we'll see.

(I thought Ironhorse's "Orstraya" was somewhere in Eastern Canada...Don't tell him though)

 

[BraveheartGN]

I use the 4" finish Y knives on pastures (grass height 6") and it is great. I know they would do lawn cutting well, too.

 

[allen in texas]

You are going to get "serrations" with "Y" knives when cutting a lawn regardless of the height of cut. It's just a simple fact. The blades are shaped in a "Y" or actually an inverted "V"

 

[greg_g]

No allen, you're not. There are a minimum of three rows of knives, each row purposefully staggered so there's overlap between/among individual knife swaths. There should be no "serrations" with a flail that's set up correctly. If you in fact are a flail owner, perhaps we could assist you with your "serration" problem.

//greg//

 

[leonz]

G'day Howard Farms,

Oy!!!! you made no mistake!

When you say the mower was set up to
mow as high as it can go are you saying
the rear roller is mounted at its highest
point of the adjustment holes inferrring
it is mowing at its lowest cutting height?

About the mower skids if you have not
gotten there yet-

They never ride on the ground at any
time when mowing.

I doubt very seriously that you made
a mistake purchasing the full verge
mower version in any case.

You just have to make certain that
you have liquid ballast in rear tires
(if not installed already and the
wheels are set at thier full extended
width to maintain proper center of gravity
for your tractor and boom arm in order to
provide a proper and correct counter balance
for your extended boom arm when operating.

To check you center line balance I would extend the mower
half way out at first (provided you have liquid ballast and suitcase
weights up front) Now the fun part raise the mower up a bit and
see if the mower makes the tractor tippsy by sitting on it or adding
some solid weights on the mower hood(put an old blanket on the
mower hood to avoid scratching first though.

As long as you have the tractor set with the
widest tire settting and have ballasted rears
and suit case weights up front i do not see
you having any problems with a full width
verge mower.


About your concerns with the float position
of the flail mower:


Are you worried that the arc the mower takes
to reach full float in the lowered position will be
too little for the mowing conditions leaving a wedge
of cut grass rather than a closely cut earthern bank?


Happy Mowing

 

[allen in texas]

No allen, you're not. There are a minimum of three rows of knives, each row purposefully staggered so there's overlap between/among individual knife swaths. There should be no "serrations" with a flail that's set up correctly. If you in fact are a flail owner, perhaps we could assist you with your "serration" problem.

//greg//

Yes Greg, I am a flail owner. Not trying to argue but I'd be glad for you to show me how to make a flail that has the "V" Or "Y" knives (my flail in fact) cut without leaving "serrations" in the grass. My flail has 4 rows of knives. I have cut my lawn with it. It looks good but it leaves the lawn "serrated" no matter what height I cut the grass. It's the nature of the beast. Some one here said, when using their "V/Y" knife equipped flail to mow a lawn "Looked liked it had been combed. There is no way IMO to get a smooth cut on grass with blades that have approximately 45 degrees of angle relative to the ground.
http://www.rearsmfg.com/WEB PHOTOS/Flail/Mower/Lit/600 series lit.pdf
My flail has the 960 knives (scroll down to the different blades) 96 of them I think and I have ordered a set of the 920 grass knives for it. My flail is set up for either. The 920's will make a cut that rivals a reel mower. The 960's leave serrations. The overlap of the knives is such that the serrations are only about an inch wide but they will be there no matter how my flail is set up. YMMV


PS. I don't mind the serrations. Matter of fact, I cut the lawn with the flail when I'm in a hurry. 6 foot of cut at over 6 MPH goes a lot faster than a 42 inch JD riding mower.

 

[allen in texas]

:confused2:Well ain't that something...
I just got home, counted the knives on my flail. I have 72 (36 pair) not 96. Oh well. I ordered 48 of the grass knives. I guess I'll have an even dozen for spares.:ashamed:

 

[Howard Farm]

Pretty sure my flail mounts are equi spaced down the drum, the first being set at say 12 and 6 o'clock the next at 3 and 9 o'clock and then back to 12 and 6 and so on. and I think there is very little overlap if any with the knives, only with hammers.

Yes, sorry, Roller at it highest point so cutting as much as possible - leaving grass as short as possible.

This Carraro (like most of them) is designed with to have its weight proportionally more over the front axle to try and make equivalent axle loading with an attachment on the opposite end. It has equivalent tyre sizes front and back and I have water in all of them - full in the back and a third in the front (for now). I have a loader on the front to so it runs pretty even from the the little time I've had on it.

With regard to the float - my only thought was as the verge setup means the mower is a minimum of 1.6m from the back rather than right on the 3pt link as with a standard mulcher - it may not want trail with the tractor easily when running over the crests and into the valleys when using it like a standard flail (behind the tractor). But this is all heresay as I haven't used it yet.

 

[greg_g]

Yes Greg, I am a flail owner.

And a nice one it is. But it's not representative of all flails. My Ford 917H for example, is as I described. That is, the multiple rows of staggered knives are staggered respective to each other. It leaves no "serrations". That said, I use yet a different type knife, something of a cross between your 920 and 946 knives. So in retrospect, I guess mine may more appropriately be described as a "T" rather than a "Y". Three rows of 11 uni-directional double edged knives, each 2.6" wide overall, with right and left cutting edges. There are 66 edges that cut a 74" swath. But if you consider that 33 x 2.6" = 85.8", you can see that works out to quite an effective overlap.

//greg//

 

[leonz]

Pretty sure my flail mounts are equi spaced down the drum, the first being set at say 12 and 6 o'clock the next at 3 and 9 o'clock and then back to 12 and 6 and so on. and I think there is very little overlap if any with the knives, only with hammers.

Yes, sorry, Roller at it highest point so cutting as much as possible - leaving grass as short as possible.

This Carraro (like most of them) is designed with to have its weight proportionally more over the front axle to try and make equivalent axle loading with an attachment on the opposite end. It has equivalent tyre sizes front and back and I have water in all of them - full in the back and a third in the front (for now). I have a loader on the front to so it runs pretty even from the the little time I've had on it.

With regard to the float - my only thought was as the verge setup means the mower is a minimum of 1.6m from the back rather than right on the 3pt link as with a standard mulcher - it may not want trail with the tractor easily when running over the crests and into the valleys when using it like a standard flail (behind the tractor). But this is all heresay as I haven't used it yet.

G'day Howard Farms,


You have a Carraro?, good for you as they are beautiful machines!!
They are built wide and low and tough like the Eimco and Wagner Mining Scoops!!

Do you have a Power Take Off on both the front and rear?

Glad to here that the tyres are ballasted with water and there is
no need for calcium to keeep them from freezing in your part of Oz.

About the float, as long as the rear roller can follow the contour no worries mate!

The mower will ride well and the pins and bushings will last very a long time.



Happy Mowing.

 

[allen in texas]

And a nice one it is. But it's not representative of all flails. My Ford 917H for example, is as I described. That is, the multiple rows of staggered knives are staggered respective to each other. It leaves no "serrations". That said, I use yet a different type knife, something of a cross between your 920 and 946 knives. So in retrospect, I guess mine may more appropriately be described as a "T" rather than a "Y". Three rows of 11 uni-directional double edged knives, each 2.6" wide overall, with right and left cutting edges. There are 66 edges that cut a 74" swath. But if you consider that 33 x 2.6" = 85.8", you can see that works out to quite an effective overlap.

//greg//

"I guess mine may more appropriately be described as a "T" rather than a "Y". Three rows of 11 uni-directional double edged knives, each 2.6" wide overall, with right and left cutting edges."

Ok now. I have seen the "T" knives and yes, I can see where they would make a smooth cut. Thanks for the compliment on my flail. It's a beast and it's the lightest version that Rear's made at the time I bought it. I'm excited to get my grass knives. As good a job as it does, serrations and all, with the "Y" blades, I know it's going to do an outstanding job on my lawn. I just wish I had some sort of catcher. Actually, I won't do the lawn much with it, the tractor is too heavy but I have very nicely groomed ditches around my place. That's where I will primarily use the flail. And when I need to go back to brush cutting, it only takes a few moments without tools to change back to the "Y"'s.
The OP was concerned with the Serrations left by the "Y" knives.
IMO and this is my opinion supported by Rears, If he wanted, he could substitute the "Y" Knives for "T" knives and get a very nice cut on a lawn.
The reason I said "IMO" is because of the discussion that you cannot change the knives because of balance problems. Rears says that as long as you have a matching set of knives that are similar in length and weight to the originals, go for it. I just happen to have ordered Rears 920 knives (they call them cup knives or grass blades) but I googled knives for your 917. Very interesting. They might be my next set of knives. looks like they might work both for my brush cutting AND grass cutting.

 

[greg_g]

They might be my next set of knives. looks like they might work both for my brush cutting AND grass cutting.

I highly recommend them, and I'm reasonably confident they're hardened as well. I put on a new set in 2009, and put sharpening on my list of things to do this spring. But when I took off the deflector to start the job, I saw nothing but clean edges. 3 cutting seasons, and no sharpening needed (yet).

//greg//