Has anyone taken delivery of a 4010?

[PitbullMidwest]

<font color=blue>...Dr Demming...</font color=blue>

My wife is the QA Manager where we work. By applying Dr. Demming's teachings she totally rebuilt our QC program and we are now recognized as THE Quality leader in the corporation. Our process and out of box defects are all well below the mil standard. When asked how she did it, the engineers stop listening after hearing the Demming name. Too bad that American industry still hasn't recognized the importance of Dr. Demming's teachings.

BTW J, I always enjoy your posts.

 

[bigpete]

Demmings quality principles are being taught in MBA and undergrad insdustrial administration curriculum, as are many variations that have evolved since those years when we rebuilt a nation we had destroyed. I finished up my MBA a little over a year ago and spent many-an-hour, nose in the bindings of text and reference to those principles.

They are hard learned in practice for many companies and even the well-designed process must operate in the mode of continuous improvement for these principles to result in genuine process and product improvement. The principles are not a fad, as some administrators are prone to consider in implementation. As I mentioned, it happens not once, not twice, but more as an industrial lifestyle.

Early costs are high for those companies striving to "convert' to a linear philosophy that filters and fixes as the widget or whatzit takes shape. New start-up and complementary industries may be "born" with a better ability and will certainly be able to leverage TQM and continuous quality processes much sooner in the capital cycle than those companies that recognize the values of those principles and must completely change the company's operating paradigm to find defects before they fall into the rework bin at the end of the line, or fail in the hands of, or under the a$$e$ of consumers. Those companies with blinders on will fare much worse than those who struggle to change.

Great topic and I guess I should have warned everybody in my profile not to get me started. As it relates to our community hobby here at TBN, this is certainly the dominant reason we are operating composite machinery, theoretically made of the best pieces that can be found. Some companies like Kubota grew with competive philosophies that created an independency for most all core components. Combined with their manufacturing roots an Kanzai philosphies, no wonder the are the toughest competitor out there.

Whatever you do, don't get me started on product lifecycle and marketing issues.

Later,

 

[tanuke01]

In princial I agree with you, but I have a few of points.

1. If it works so great, why has Japans economy been in the tollet for almost ten years?

2. Japan does not pay their CEOs and other top MBAs the $Millions the US industries pay their's for doing nothing (very little ) to incease the products nor the Quality.

3. Japan has always followed the leader. They buy or steal what they want, they invent very little.

Japanese workers are in general, followers. after the war they had nothing. Dr. Demming's prinicals worked well. US bosses did and still do tell their worker how to do their jobs, and the accountants are doing what they have always done. Tell it like the CEO wants it to be reported.

These are just my opinions, I worked in a large Corp for 36 years. Quality Manager for 5 years. 3 plants in Japan (49%)We tried it all. it helps, but is not the final solution.

DPR







3.

 

[bigpete]

DPR,

Points taken well. I have to say, we've found ourselves on a tangent far from "Anybody take delivery of a 4010 yet?" Mostly my fault....

I'll get to your your enumerated points, but I must first reassert a point, or rather a discalimer, I might have made earlier had I expected such a deep discourse. TQM and W. Edwards' premises are singularly removed from a point of success for an organization, and singularly *far* removed from the global dominance or collapse of a country's economy. They are what they are: an organizational philosophy and long-term strategy that makes continuous improvement a responsibility of all employees. TQM is dedication to meeting customers' needs and expectations which includes (1) designing quality into products and services; (2) preventing defects but correcting those that do appear; and (3) continuously improving the quality of goods and services to the fullest profitable extent. It truly is a micro concept that *will* have macro effects for productivity at the gross domestic level for an economy if universally and socially adopted, as seems to be the case for Japan between 1951 and 1997. However, macroeconomic principles weigh far greater on the destiny of a country or economy, while such quality practices weigh heavily on the destiny of segements, industries, companies, andultimately, employees. As you know, some companies can "stink on ice" and roll in the green exccrement. Others may operate under best practices under best practical economic conditions, and the economic septic tank flows in reverse.

Alright, so there's a connection between "national' quality practices and gross domestic product performance. At what altitude must you fly to make the correlation, however? Do all japanese companies produce a product as comprehensibly bullet proof as Toyota? Honda? Mitsibishi? Sony? Kubota? I think not. We desire that level of quality and, therefore, that's what we see.

To your points:

1) i see no negative correlation between Demming's Japanese quality movement and the collapse of the japanese banking system, and subsequent Asian banking collapse, other than the possibility that the incredible (amazing) growth rate of the Japanese economy was 8-10% for several years running in the 90's. Japanes corporate equity (obligations to stockholders) was based in an astounding investment rate of almost 40% of Japan's GDP during those times. The proverbial ballon going up, then coming.... Competitive currency conditions in Asia (other Asian countries trying to attract global investment by undercutting the J-Yen) cause overvaluation of the Yen, and the banks go under....'nuff said. An industrial culture of quality attracts feverish global investment of overconfident investors--that's the only connection I make between the Japanese economic condition and quality.

2) Demming said that poor qulaity is 85% management; 15% worker. Even before Demming arrived, the cultural environment, based in Shinto and Buddhist influences, lent itself to individual sacrifice based in loyalty. Respect for elders and ancestor worship are strong cultural identifiers for Japanese men. While those do exist in the culture of the American male (not a sexist comment ladies), the influence of these supporting notions means less in the U.S. company structure. My counterpoint is that U.S. corporate execs don't think as much of their company as Japanes execs, and their expertise must be bought, not anticipated.

3) Don't really know what to say to that, but I'll just disregard/disagree with the "steal" comment. Business is business and, while Japanese steel dumping back in the early 70's and 80's destroyed the steel industry, the U.S. is hardly innocent and beyond inethical practices abroad. Don't read a moral statement here, please, but I will disagree with your statement that Japan is following anyone, at least in an industrial sense. You are on target if you mean their economic woes are a result of a failure to use their banking system to stabilize their economy.

So here I am, typing on my made-in-the-U.S.A.-sort-of computer; thinking about getting the oil changed on my Toyota Avalon next week; wondering when my wife's Honda Odysse will be in (demand sure is outpacing supply...)

Maybe I'll have a cold beer and start a thread on Demming's five recommendations for improving quality.

Nah.... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[TresCrows]

Well we did stray but I always know where I am going though convoluted it may be. If you go back to my post where I was drawing parallels where I mentioned "small nifty diesel tractors" and "confound" the competition and then I went on about the volume of sales and getting product to market--well apparently JD does not have product in the market yet and I should have made that parallel at that time. Soooooo, I did not actually stray to far from "has anyone taken delievery of a 4010" and apparently not many have nor is the accesory packages available such as the MMM when some of the other new JD's were released thus it appears there is a volume and getting product into production and into customer hands problem which is where the Dr Demming stuff came to mind. Every sale JD misses is lost revenue and a sales to the competition. That is why it is critical to flood the market with xyz units when the product xyz is announced. It does no good to get the consumer wanting the xyz and then he goes to get one and cannot find one so he gets something else like maybe brand K. J

 

[bigpete]

But J, what about the "Harley" principle?

I agree with supply meeting demand, and also agree that "flooding," for lack of a better term, is a good tactic when truly broaching a new market, but I don't think that would have been a wise move for JD either. Remember unit sales are down right across all segments, not just CUTS, and inventory is the great cancer of all companies.

JD really is falling short on meeting demand, even if they wanted to use the Harley principle to maintain price while controlling inventory costs. Perhaps they DID have qulaity problems, and combined with the philosophy of limiting supply to sustain prices, they are falling short of expectations.

A lot of conjecture here by both you and me as to what might have been the right thing to do. All we really know is that JD is having problems getting it out the door and under consumers. It's probably a lot more complicated than what we can see or guess. We haven't even considered the possibility of suppliers wreaking havoc on JIT systems, or labor issues tripping up production. Deere has laid off a lot of blue and white in the last year, or so, and even though that may not affect an assembly plant it can have systemic repurcussions.

Not good no matter what /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif the cause.

 

[tanuke01]

Just a short reply. I was not putting down TQM in Japan nor in the US. The total problem in my opinion is just what you say. Put the bame on someone else. The banks, the accountants, or who every get in the way. Quality is not the problem, in Japan or the US it's coming from China or some 3rd World country

DPR

 

[TresCrows]

Gosh, did not mean to start an anti JD thread. I just think you gotta have units on the floor to sell them no matter how good they are.
I suppose by the "Harley" principle you refer to the comeback of Harley Davidson. That was a back from the dead made possible by the leach AMF sucking them dry and them spitting them out--well, I guess there may have been some juice left. This is another example of how American companies spend to much time worrying over short term stock market trends--buying and selling companies to maximise shareholder returns--in the short term.
Oh, Honda Motor company is still number one world wide and I believe last year it took back over from Harley number one sales volume is the USA and NA.
I like that Harley however is in the game and fighting back. Despite the anger directed at Harley by old time Harley people Harely continues to seek new engines and markets --Buell, the Buell blast to hook young people, the Porche connection etc. You see, the Harley managers figured that there were only so many fat, large, aging white males that liked to wear black left in the market that did not already own a Harley so Harley is wisely trying to broaden it's appeal to the young, to Europe and beyond and to folk other than the aforementioned fat, dressed in black leather, traditional Harley folk. That is probably a good move because it is known and discovered by Harley that the youthful customer prefers lighter, more narrow and more performance oriented machines and that this generation current is also very tech oriented--not likely consumers for a 1200CC lawnmower engine even if it does make a lot of rachet and they will not likely be so enamored with oil leaks or break downs and most likely already drive Japanese vehicles so Harley is already one down on Honda to start with--but I am betting Harely will survive and prosper and introduce another generation to Harley Davidson Legend--it just may not be your daddy's Harley they ride and they may not be wearing black leather chaps either. If the Japs would get over the "racebike" crotch rocket love affair they have been stuck on for 20 years now Harley would have never survvied--they would have died long ago--you see--there are only so many pimple faced, testosterone ablaze white male helmetless geeks that wish to ride at 140 MPH in tight striped leather outfits that say "ninja or" kawabunga"and since insurance statistics show most kill themselves within hours of the purchase perhaps American Honda should seek another market also. J

 

[Kodiak]

Whaaat a 1200CC lawn mower, with loud pipes. I might be interested.

 

[bigpete]

J,

I don't see this as an anti-JD thread--do you, really?

I'm just summarizing the quality principles you broght up and shooting holes in the notion that JD doesn't use TQM principles in manufacturing and that this must CERTAINLY be the cause for their inability to get specific products and attachments to the show room floors (I read that to be your subtle suggestion when you stated that you always know where you are going....). As a rule, I pounce on unfounded conjecture stated as absolute knowledge. Geez, how can you or I possibly know why the mower deck line is slowing down JD getting product in the channel? As I stated, all we know is that they haven't delivered many, if any, 4010s.

Alright, the Harley Principle is something that needs clarification, too. I'm not referring to Harley's renaissance after the AMF dark ages, but rather to the manufacturing and marketing practices that helped them to regain their good name and maintain top prices for their product. (sounds like JD, doesn't it?)

Harley was one of the first modern, non-monopolistic companies to grasp their product as having a loyal core folowing and to be so unique that they could employ monopolistic supply-side tactics to control price and profit equilibrium. Many have followed suit, some successfully, some not so. Chrysler, for example, sets out with considerable pre-production hype on its PT Cruiser, creating demand for a vehicle that it intends to limit production line roll-off. It's nothing new and Harley didn't invent it. However, theyhave showed consistent and profitable growth which, BTW seems to be their highest priority performance measure. I'm not a motorcycle guy but I see a lot more companies trying to build a Hog-like bike rather than HArley trying to build road racers (or crotch rockets--I like that /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif )

My ealier conjecture is just that... a guess that JD planned (plans) on leveraging brand loyalty and controlling supply to avoid the price wars with the competition. The second half of my guess is that something went wrong in the supply chain and dampened their plans.