Haul tractor on dump trailer?

[Duffster]

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1*I thought Towing Capacity and Pay Load were 2 difference things and could be used independently .
I didn't realize it was an either or situation.

Dmace has GVWR confused with GCWR

 

[Builder]

Well even my old 94 F-350 non-turbo IDI diesel dump truck gets 14-15mpg on the highway and I assumed the newer trucks would get at least 1-2mpg more. You know what they say about assuming though...

Oh heck no, the newer trucks are 2X more powerful. Guess where most of that power comes from? More fuel.

 

[Dmace]

Dmace has GVWR confused with GCWR

There is no confusion, I know exactly what each means. What I said was:

Once you put a few ton in the back of a 1-ton dump truck you are already at your maximum GVWR and cannot legally tow a loaded trailer as well.

Now, GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and is the maximum your truck can weigh including the full payload, cargo, people, plow, gas, etc...

So when I said putting a few tons "in the back of a 1-ton dump" I meant that you would be at or close to the maximum GVWR and that is true. You can typically only haul 2 tons +/- in a 1-ton dump.

Now the GCWR is the Gross Combined Weight Rating and that is the maximum your truck can weigh including truck, payload, people, etc... PLUS a trailer and the cargo on the trailer. I could have worded it better but if you load the truck to it's maximum GVWR then you don't leave much room for a loaded trailer as well. What I should have said was "you cannot legally tow a heavily loaded trailer as well".

For example: A 2009 Dodge Ram 3500 Diesel 4x4 SRW quad cab short bed auto 3.73 rearend has a curb weight of 6,792lbs, Payload of 3,130lbs, GVWR of 10,100lbs and GCWR of 21,000lbs. So if you load the truck to it's max payload like a dump truck your truck now weighs around 10,000lbs plus the weight of you, the gas, and any misc tools and stuff in the truck (let's assume another 250lbs). This means you can legally only carry a loaded trailer weighing a max of 10,750lbs (that's trailer and load).
INFO LINK

 

[Builder]

There is no confusion, I know exactly what each means. What I said was:


Now, GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and is the maximum your truck can weigh including the full payload, cargo, people, plow, gas, etc...

So when I said putting a few tons "in the back of a 1-ton dump" I meant that you would be at or close to the maximum GVWR and that is true. You can typically only haul 2 tons +/- in a 1-ton dump.

Now the GCWR is the Gross Combined Weight Rating and that is the maximum your truck can weigh including truck, payload, people, etc... PLUS a trailer and the cargo on the trailer. I could have worded it better but if you load the truck to it's maximum GVWR then you don't leave much room for a loaded trailer as well. What I should have said was "you cannot legally tow a heavily loaded trailer as well".

For example: A 2009 Dodge Ram 3500 Diesel 4x4 SRW quad cab short bed auto 3.73 rearend has a curb weight of 6,792lbs, Payload of 3,130lbs, GVWR of 10,100lbs and GCWR of 21,000lbs. So if you load the truck to it's max payload like a dump truck your truck now weighs around 10,000lbs plus the weight of you, the gas, and any misc tools and stuff in the truck (let's assume another 250lbs). This means you can legally only carry a loaded trailer weighing a max of 10,750lbs (that's trailer and load).
INFO LINK

You might not even be able to do that depending on your tires & tongue weight of your trailer.

If you fully load the bed of your truck, you have little tongue weight left to devote to a trailer.

If your truck is fully loaded and you plop a trailer onto the truck's hitch, it's just like adding more weight in the bed, except worse, because the weight is well behind the rear axle. At that point, even with a light trailer, your truck would be considered overweight if the truck were placed on a scale.

Take an example of a truck with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. If you fully load the truck to 10,000lbs with cargo in the bed, then add a 10,000 lb trailer to the hitch with 10% tongue weight, that adds another 1,000lbs to the truck. At that point, the truck now is loaded to 11,000 lbs. That's 1,000lbs overweight.

So if you want to tow a heavy trailer, you need to leave the bed free of weight to make room for your tongue weight.

 

[Duffster]

There is no confusion, I know exactly what each means. What I said was:


Now, GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and is the maximum your truck can weigh including the full payload, cargo, people, plow, gas, etc...

So when I said putting a few tons "in the back of a 1-ton dump" I meant that you would be at or close to the maximum GVWR and that is true. You can typically only haul 2 tons +/- in a 1-ton dump.

Now the GCWR is the Gross Combined Weight Rating and that is the maximum your truck can weigh including truck, payload, people, etc... PLUS a trailer and the cargo on the trailer. I could have worded it better but if you load the truck to it's maximum GVWR then you don't leave much room for a loaded trailer as well. What I should have said was "you cannot legally tow a heavily loaded trailer as well".

For example: A 2009 Dodge Ram 3500 Diesel 4x4 SRW quad cab short bed auto 3.73 rearend has a curb weight of 6,792lbs, Payload of 3,130lbs, GVWR of 10,100lbs and GCWR of 21,000lbs. So if you load the truck to it's max payload like a dump truck your truck now weighs around 10,000lbs plus the weight of you, the gas, and any misc tools and stuff in the truck (let's assume another 250lbs). This means you can legally only carry a loaded trailer weighing a max of 10,750lbs (that's trailer and load).
INFO LINK

Sooooo.. You could still pull a nearly fully loaded 12k dump trailer

I am hearin' now

 

[Dmace]

Sooooo.. You could still pull a nearly fully loaded 12k dump trailer

I am hearin' now

Uhh, no. That trailer alone probably weighs between 3,000-4,000lbs empty which means you can only haul about 6,000lbs in that 12,000lb trailer. Hardly an effective use of such a trailer.

Plus as Builder noted, if you did have the bed of the truck loaded to the truck's maximum GVWR then you couldn't even hook up an empty trailer without being overload due to the tongue weight on the hitch. This is basically what I meant with the original comment but worded it wrong, thanks Builder.

 

[Duffster]

Uhh, no. That trailer alone probably weighs between 3,000-4,000lbs empty which means you can only haul about 6,000lbs in that 12,000lb trailer. Hardly an effective use of such a trailer.

Plus as Builder noted, if you did have the bed of the truck loaded to the truck's maximum GVWR then you couldn't even hook up an empty trailer without being overload due to the tongue weight on the hitch. This is basically what I meant with the original comment but worded it wrong, thanks Builder.

So being 1 ton short of GVWR wouldn't be an effective use of the tralier?

In my state

As long as you don't exceed Axle ratings you are all good

 

[Builder]

Let's say you're unsure about an axle or a GVWR or a GCWR. What you can do is pull only the truck on a scale with trailer hooked up.

If the GVWR of the truck is 10,000 and the truck on the scale (trailer not on the scale) is over 10,000 lbs, then you must pull weight off the truck or trailer until the truck scale rating is 10,000 or less.

You can also weight individual axles to check each axle, or weigh just the trailer to check the trailer.

If you're pulled over by DOT, they'll weigh the truck axles individually and then add them collectively as a sum total on the truck and then they'll weigh the axles on the trailer. Then they'll add the axles on the truck AND trailer. Just because you're "under" on an axle as it's rated, doesn't mean you're not "over" on the sum total of axles and GVWR or GCWR.

We all know our axles are more highly rated than our trucks collective total GVWR. For example, my GMC pickup has a rear axle rating of 6,500 and a front axle rating of 4,900. Together, they add to 11,400, but my truck is only rated at 9,900 lbs GVWR.

So lets say I get pulled over and weighed. My rear axle reads 6,000 lbs. I'm "under" on my rear axle by 500lbs, right? Next, let's say my front axle weight reads 4,000 lbs. I'm "under" by 800 lbs, right?

However, the sum total of front & rear axle is 10,000 lbs. So I'm actually "over" on my GVWR by 100 lbs even though I'm well "under" on both axles!!!

So you can't go by axle ratings alone. You go by the lowest common denominator, or in laymans terms, the "weakest link". My "weakest link" in my example above is my GVWR.

There are dozens of other scenarios that result in a different "weakest link".

 

[jinman]

My new dump trailer came with D-ring tiedowns in each corner of the bed. Check out the load dataplates for hauling capacity. Also, the beds understructure is plenty strong for any hauling you might do. I think you'll be happy with your dump trailer even though they might cost over twice what the non-dumpbed trailers cost. The company that sold my dump trailer charges $1000 for each additional 2' length: 12' to 14' to 16'. . . .

 

[Duffster]

They need to take a little more Pride in their work

The DOT tape is upside down