Hayloft is Crashing Down! Help!

[LD1]

Yes. Good picture.

So you are saying that YES they were nailed that way??? The length of the diagonal nails is what is important in that representation. You are basically "toe-nailing" the joist to the header with the hanger being a guide for that toe-nail (as well as adding strength to the connection). FAR too many times, I see shorter nails used because people think that the hanger is all that is needed to make the connection. But the criss-crossed toe nails are VERY important.

If you look at the end of the joist that pulled out, you should see about an inch or more of nail sticking out of the end that should have been nailed into the header. Are you seeing this?

 

[cqaigy2]

One thing I have been wanting to know, and it is hard to describe, but I found a picture.


Were the joists nailed like this View attachment 278242

Good pict.

 

[GPintheMitten]

So you are saying that YES they were nailed that way??? The length of the diagonal nails is what is important in that representation. You are basically "toe-nailing" the joist to the header with the hanger being a guide for that toe-nail (as well as adding strength to the connection). FAR too many times, I see shorter nails used because people think that the hanger is all that is needed to make the connection. But the criss-crossed toe nails are VERY important.

If you look at the end of the joist that pulled out, you should see about an inch or more of nail sticking out of the end that should have been nailed into the header. Are you seeing this?

I understand what you're saying, but I didn't look that close. The nails might have been of appropriate length but I can't say one way or the other. But it wouldn't really surprise me if the nails were wrong. There were other stupid things done. The hangers were shorter than I think should have been used.

As other's here have stated, I sure wouldn't use hangers. I would have used a much stronger carrier system bolted to the posts and have placed the joists on top of the carriers. I probably won't be back there for a week or two.

 

[FredH]

Personally , I Don't Use nails on any of those Joist / Rafter Brackets . Screws Only , Both to the Header and to the Joist / Rafter via the holes in those brackets . Kinda like " Holmes on Homes " . Although I will use a nail gun or palm nailer for some building , Switched to screws quite some time ago , A bit slower sometimes , but I like the holding power .

Fred H

 

[joshuabardwell]

Personally , I Don't Use nails on any of those Joist / Rafter Brackets . Screws Only

Do the screws' weakness in shear compared to nails matter?

 

[Philscbx]

Coming into it late -
but I would of rented the larger Bobcat series where one is protected by sudden failure of joists if they suddenly failed
while it placed beam in place to use full length joist jacks with screw jack on top.

As others said - jacking joists up 1/4" at a time per day lets building members to slowly absorb the change.
4 post jacks in 8 foot span until level.

I've recovered similar damage to homes like this from flooding long term damage.

1/4" steel 6" x 4" steel angle could be altered in for joists to sit on - trimming ends of joists to fit the steel angle in.

I'd still remove the hey load to half height. So building can recover from extreme pressures.

Seeing those joist hangers as the only support - was scary -
I don't allow this type of hanger only building home decks w/o ledger.
I see these hanger only used in other decks build over head on second level of homes - very dangerous after ten years with all the warping / shrinking / snow loads and rusted hardware.

Best part - no one was hurt - it could of been a much different story.
Good job.

 

[bcp]

Do the screws' weakness in shear compared to nails matter?

I found this:
Strong-Drive® SD Structural-Connector Screw

In certain applications screws are easier and more convenient to install than nails, and the single-fastener load values achieved by the SD9 and SD10 exceed those of typical 10d common or 16d common nails, respectively.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I found this:
Strong-Drive® SD Structural-Connector Screw

In certain applications screws are easier and more convenient to install than nails, and the single-fastener load values achieved by the SD9 and SD10 exceed those of typical 10d common or 16d common nails, respectively.

Thanks! I didn't know that. I also am a fan of screws for certain types of construction--not the least because I don't own a nail gun. I'd much rather push a drill all day than swing a hammer, especially at odd angles.

 

[MarkV]

The screws bcp linked are approved but any other type of screw will not pass inspection in my area. Joshuabardwell is also correct that the shear strength is the problem with common screws. You see people using drywall screws or deck screw with joist hangers and they are really asking for trouble.

MarkV

 

[FredH]

The Simpson Hangers that I recently used in my dads shop expansion allow the use of either nails or screws BUT they are specific nails and screws not just common 10D or 16D nails or "Drywall" screws . Matter of facts those Simpson screws shown in the link above were exactly what I used . As I mentioned above though , I don't use screws for everything , I usually plan out my construction , buy supplies accordingly , then build using nail gun with anything between 2" to 3.5" nails , palm nailer or my C3 19.2 volt Craftsman driver . 1 battery drove 96 of the 100 2.5" screws in the box .

Fred H

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...Id=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UEOKdnl0kcA

These Screws