Heat Pump question...

[MossflowerWoods]

OK, I HATE my electric Heat Pump, but I live with 4 ladies and they always think they are FREEZING.

The AC side actually works great, but the Heat side... Good gravy...

It is only 4-5 years old and the finished space is only 1340 square feet. I will need to add a second unit for the attic when I finish it, and the Basement I do open a couple vents in the winter to keep it slightly warmer down there.

Here is my issue. I set the heat to 67 during the day and 62 at night. I need it to be cooler at night so I can sleep.

Every morning for a couple hours the "emergency heat" comes on to warm the house up that measley 5 degrees. We have only gotten down to just barely freezing for a couple hours at night.

Last hunting season, set at 65 degrees, it seemed to run ALL DAY.

Is this normal? Do I call the home warranty company to fix it? What do I tell them is wrong?

MUST I set the thermostat so there is only a 2-3 degree difference?

Also, when I add a unit to the attic I am considering a propane furnace with AC. Can I change out my current Heat Pump "emergency heat" unit for a propane one?

My heating bills are going to be outrageous. almost as high as they were for my 6,000 square foot place in town. There MUST be something I can do...

Thanks in advance,
David

 

[nikdfish]

That doesn't sound like proper operation. The HP at our old place (10+ years old) had no trouble maintaining 67 degrees w/ outside temps at 30 degrees with periodic run times. Our new place with new system maintains 65 inside with outside temps as low as 20 with probably a 60 percent run time.

I'd say you need to get a good HVAC guy to check out the system & see if something needs work. As far as supplemental heat goes, both our heat pump systems used propane for the auxiliary heat source.

Nick

 

[Ford850]

It depends on how well your house is insulated. I have the propane/heat pump furnace in a newer well insulated home. The HP does run quite a bit, but it is more efficient than propane. It runs down to 21 degrees, then the propane takes over. There are some days that it seems to run almost continuously, but they are designed to do that. If there is more than a 2 degree difference in home temp and thermostat setting, propane kicks in. I intentionally requested a setback programmable thermostat when we built, but the HVAC place told me afterwards it is more efficient if I don't set back the temp at night due to the propane use to catch it back up in the morning. Mine stays set at 69 24/7, and it heats 2100 sf, plus a full basement to 65.
I burn wood too, but since the HP is so efficient I don't start burning wood until the winter temps get down and the propane runs. Then the wood heat takes most of the 'edge' off so propane use is minimal.

 

[KTurner]

Every morning for a couple hours the "emergency heat" comes on to warm the house up that measley 5 degrees. We have only gotten down to just barely freezing for a couple hours at night.

From what I know of these things, you can't have that much of a temp difference. If the thermostat sees a certain number of degrees difference, it automatically turns on aux/emerg heat strips and they absolutely kill any savings you'd have got from the heat pump. Get a programmable thermostat and set it so that it increases the temp in smaller increments. Like 62 until 4am, then 65 until 5am then 67 at 7am.

If you can keep the emergency heat strips off, you'll have **MUCH** lower heating costs.

and running all day for 65 doesn't sound right. Are you sure the ladies weren't bumping it up to 75 while you weren't looking?

Keith

 

[kenmac]

Is this normal? Do I call the home warranty company to fix it? What do I tell them is wrong?

Thanks in advance,
David

It's hard to say what's wrong if anything. It will need to be checked. I wouldn't use home warranty if I wanted it right. The people that contract to H W companies make almost nothing. They usually tell the contractor what & how much they will pay for a repair & the contractor has to accept their rates. Like they say ,, You get what you pay for in most cases using HW. I would contact an HVAC contractor in your area & just pay them out of pocket to check it. There's no way I would work for a HW company. I hope you don't take my comments about HW the wrong way. I,ve just gone behind so many when the cust. gets fed up

 

[Larry Caldwell]

If you are going to set back your thermostat, you need to invest in a computerized programmable thermostat that will kick the heat pump on and gradually step up for an hour so the heating strips don't come on. We also like to sleep in a cool room, so just close the dampers on the vents, close the bedroom door and open a window. The rest of the house stays warm all night.

It is possible your heat pump is not working properly. The heat differential is small, which is why heat pumps require a higher air volume, but there should be a 20 degree difference between the return air and the supply air. If you are not getting a 20 degree boost, you need to call for service. You should also inspect your ductwork. Years ago a guy hired me to insulate his ducts, and I discovered that one of the ducts in the crawl space had come disconnected and was blowing hot air under the house. He was thrilled with the cost savings after I repaired and insulated his ductwork.

 

[grsthegreat]

Hmmm, my heatpump is about 4 years old, and i do the same as you. About 62 at night and up to 68 about 4PM to take the chill off before i get home to start the fireplase. I have propane backup heat sorce (so generator can run on power loss). Mine is set to use heat pump down to 25F, then aux heat. Has always worked flawless. Mine doesnt switch the backup heat on UNLESS (1) its below 25 or (2) the system goes into defrost mode.. Other than that, its heat pump heating house. My utility bills are drastically lower that when i had JUST propane heat.

 

[gilbertmsg]

We have a 1750 sf home with about 25 windows on one floor. When it is below 45 degress our HP runs most of the time. I try to keep the thermostat at 65 at night and 68 when I get home from work. I pay $200.00 per month for electric and usually have about a $100.00 credit when the year is over. We heat our hot water with propance and have a fireplace insert that I use when it is really cold. I have found out that the HP works better when it stays at a constant temp and does not have to catch up. I would say it is normal to run most of the time.

Eddie

 

[KYErik]

My heat pump will kick on the emergency heat if the difference between the house temp and the set temp is more than a couple of degrees for 20 minutes or so. Try increasing the thermostat temp one degree at a time in the morning and I bet the emergency heat won't come on. It is really annoying when we lose power for an hour or so. The unit comes back on when the power comes on, but after a few minutes the emergency heat will kick on so it can get up to the set temp quickly.

It does sound like your unit is running way too much for this time of year. You might check all of the ductwork to be sure you aren't accidentally heating an uninsulated crawlspace or attic. A quick check is cracking the front door open an inch on a calm night while the unit is running. If air rushes into or out of the house (use a candle or lighter to check) then you have a pressurized or return duct that is leaking and either blowing into or sucking from and unisulated space.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

If you are going to set back your thermostat, you need to invest in a computerized programmable thermostat that will kick the heat pump on and gradually step up for an hour so the heating strips don't come on. We also like to sleep in a cool room, so just close the dampers on the vents, close the bedroom door and open a window. The rest of the house stays warm all night.

It is possible your heat pump is not working properly. The heat differential is small, which is why heat pumps require a higher air volume, but there should be a 20 degree difference between the return air and the supply air. If you are not getting a 20 degree boost, you need to call for service. You should also inspect your ductwork. Years ago a guy hired me to insulate his ducts, and I discovered that one of the ducts in the crawl space had come disconnected and was blowing hot air under the house. He was thrilled with the cost savings after I repaired and insulated his ductwork.

The thermostat is programmable, but it only has 4 increments Morning, Day, Evening, and Sleep.

I will lower the high, and raise the low... This stinks. What is th point of all this high tech stuff if you just need to set it to a single tempreture and forget it...

I LOVED my Gas furnace, I HATE Heat Pumps...

David

 

[blueriver]

Maybe just maybe the thermostat needs replacing? I got a different one off ebay and it may be my imagination seems to be better. R4 is important ... I blew in insulation in every attic nook and crannie I could find, replaced some bad windows and two doors ... at least I feel better about all of it and my electric bill went down ... Speaking of that this month the house and the barn (seperate meters) just at $109 ... my highest this summer was $205 ... better than previous years.

 

[Pilot]

I have a HP with propane backup and the propane comes on when it is less than 30 outside. It doesn't matter what the inside temp is or how high it needs to go, it only goes to propane when it's below 30 outside.

 

[bucktaker]

I have the HP with propane back up i heat 3200sf on 400 gal of propane and a level electric bill of 180.00

We have a thermostat and use setbacks. The program is m-f
530am-9am 66 9am-3pm 60 3-5pm 66 5-10pm 68 10pm-530 am 62

Our system rarely runs at night which is nice since I hear the outside unit run. We do get a blast of propane heat in the morning on the kick between 62-66 if its below 32 outside. Kinda nice for the showers to have real heat.
my experience is if the winter weather is mild we get good savings in less propane use but if its really nasty out we stay warm with gas heat. In times its below zero I turn the heat pump off and run straight backup/emergency heat.

 

[grsthegreat]

Our heat pump has drastically reduced our winter heating bills . Then again,this year is the first year Ive been home during the days so i can keep the firebox stocked and the heater hasn't even been turned on this season.

So heat pump or not wont be an issue this year.

 

[ustmd]

Sounds like you have a problem with the heat pump.

We have had our HP for 10 years supporting ~1500 sq ft. For heat, the temp is set to 68 during the day, 55 at night. With outside temps in the 40s to 30s, it runs maybe 40-50% of the time-rarely with the electric back up.

For the attic space, I highly recommend a ductless Mini-Split system. I put a home office in our attic 2 years ago (200 sq ft) and had a Mr. Slim ductless system put in (Seer rating 26 :thumbsup. I love it. Keeps me cool during the summer and warm in the winter. I really didn;t notice a major chane to the electric bill. When the main heat pump goes, I am considering converting the entire house to the Ductless system.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

Sounds like you have a problem with the heat pump.

We have had our HP for 10 years supporting ~1500 sq ft. For heat, the temp is set to 68 during the day, 55 at night. With outside temps in the 40s to 30s, it runs maybe 40-50% of the time-rarely with the electric back up.

For the attic space, I highly recommend a ductless Mini-Split system. I put a home office in our attic 2 years ago (200 sq ft) and had a Mr. Slim ductless system put in (Seer rating 26 :thumbsup. I love it. Keeps me cool during the summer and warm in the winter. I really didn;t notice a major chane to the electric bill. When the main heat pump goes, I am considering converting the entire house to the Ductless system.

USTMD,

The attic is 840 square feet, and it had a dormer that has issues I am thinking of expanding, so maybe more.

I am putting in a dorm style large bedroom, a family room, and a powder room (if I can swing the plumbing connections).

I need to learn more about this ductless system.

David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

Maybe just maybe the thermostat needs replacing? I got a different one off ebay and it may be my imagination seems to be better. R4 is important ... I blew in insulation in every attic nook and crannie I could find, replaced some bad windows and two doors ... at least I feel better about all of it and my electric bill went down ... Speaking of that this month the house and the barn (seperate meters) just at $109 ... my highest this summer was $205 ... better than previous years.

I know the house has not got the best insulation...

I will insulate the attic VERY well when I finish it...

David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

So yesterday I adjusted the thermostat settings.

I raised the "sleep" setting to 64, and I lowered the morning and evening to 67, and lowered the day to 66. That is 2 degrees up for night, and 1 down for the rest of the day.

The furnace is right next to our bedroom and my Submarine trained ears typically wake me up for unfamiliar noises, so I did not hear it last night.

Worst part of all this is it is still too warm at night. My wife is loving the comforter I put on the bed last night, and I'm on the edge under a sheet with the comforter OFF me and piled up between us.

David

 

[Redneck in training]

Sounds like you have a problem with the heat pump.
We have had our HP for 10 years supporting ~1500 sq ft. For heat, the temp is set to 68 during the day, 55 at night. With outside temps in the 40s to 30s, it runs maybe 40-50% of the time-rarely with the electric back up.

For the attic space, I highly recommend a ductless Mini-Split system. I put a home office in our attic 2 years ago (200 sq ft) and had a Mr. Slim ductless system put in (Seer rating 26 :thumbsup. I love it. Keeps me cool during the summer and warm in the winter. I really didn;t notice a major chane to the electric bill. When the main heat pump goes, I am considering converting the entire house to the Ductless system.

One more vote for split unit.
Not all heat pumps are created equal. I just put new split system to heat/cool a guest room and my office in the shop. According to my research Mitsubishi and Fujitsu have the best technology at this time. I selected Fujitsu (I think it is 1 ton) with two air handlers. SEER is only 16.4 but the heat will work down to 4F. The small single air handler units have SEER about 24. Our unit was 4200 installed. The unit itself was 2800. If I would know what I know now I would install everything by myself and let the Heating company connect the tubing only. Another great thing about the split is you can hardly hear it. It is super quiet.

 

[LD1]

I too vote to have a competent HVAC guy look at it. But it seems there could be a number of reasons causing your problems. But I agree that your heat pump isnt working the most efficently your your routeine.

As others said, maybe it is just the programming in the thermostat??? That when it sees a big temp gap, it kicks on aux. heat. My t-stat is an old analog one. It could care less the diff. It could be 65 inside and I crank it to 85, and still no aux heat.

But again, a competent HVAC guy could advise better in this situation, and maybe even recomend a t-stat that will do what you want. But with my set-up, there are only TWO things that can make the aux heat come on. 1. Im I MANUALLY select it, or 2. IF the outside temp is below the set-point on the unit. Which is something else to look into there. Because most HVAC guys set them in the upper 30's. Mine was @ 38 when I moved in:confused2: And through trial and error + calculations, I have found it to be more efficient than my propane B/U all the way down to 17.

And to adress the issues on B/U heat...IF you already have electric strips, Propane isnt going to save you much. UNLESS propane is REALLY cheap in your area and Electric is really expensive. EX:

Propane is 91000BTU/gallon. And @ 90%eff, that is 81,900BTU. @ MY current price of 2.16/gal, that is ~38,000 BTU for every dollar.

Electric is 3.41BTU/watt. My rates are .10/KWH. SO $1 would buy me 10,000W, or 34,100 BTU. Not much difference.

You can do the calculations for your areas prices, but in my area, it would take an awfually long time to re-coup the cost of a propane furnace.

And for comparison, a typical HP should be about 3x more eff than electric. So $1 should buy you ~100,000 BTU's out of your heat pump.