Help adding 230v outlet at subpanel in the garage

[dragoneggs]

Regardless of adding an additional ground rod, all the ground wires in that panel to to one buss and all the neutrals to to a separate, isolated buss, no mixing, period.

Dragoneggs, for a view out your front window I will make a trip to Seabeck and help you out. Okay, maybe a beer, or two, as well.

I can do that... what's your favorite beer?

 

[aczlan]

Have a timber land in the Cascades.
AWESOME!
But I just 'finished' it (as in this pic).
2) OK understand - can kill the panel with one motion. Not sure I want that. It might confuse me someday that if the 30A are off the other ones are off too.
3) Pretty sure the panel neutral IS floating. It's sitting on plastic.
4) Ground rod: S219 and another says it's not req'd. Do you think it's necessary?
Hows my pic look?

All tested, buttoned up and ready to go. Only problem I have no 3/8" steel to weld here at home. And no stick-welding rod either!

Looks good to me, just make sure there isn't a screw going through the neutral bar and into the back of the panel (a bonding lug).
If you wanted to swap it for one that you could kill with one breaker, you could get a 6 breaker/12 space panel (such as: Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline 100 Amp 6-Space 12-Circuit Indoor Flush Mount Main Lugs Load Center with Cover No Door-HOM612L100FCP at The Home Depot ), that yould let you put in 2 30 amp breakers (main power in and welder out) while still having space for a pair of double breakers.
IIRC, if the panel has 6 spaces or more it has to have a main breaker.

Aaron Z

 

[Sodo]

Looks good to me, just make sure there isn't a screw going through the neutral bar and into the back of the panel (a bonding lug).

OK opened it up again to confirm the neutral bar is floating. There's no bonding screw no lug, it's clearly floating insulated above the panel, no electrical connection. Thanks for your attention.

Spent $55 today adding just the 30A breakers, wire, outlet, & box. All the rest has been there on the wall, waiting (almost 14 years). Anyway, this DIY 230v outlet would probably cost $150 in parts from the main panel. My experience with tradesmen like electricians is you need a real special connection to get them to drive to your house for a $100-$200 job. Like you have to be related. If you call a guy on the phone, it's gonna cost you $1,000 per day so It's like I made $1,000 today.

Happy that little project is done but I rarely weld at home.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

Thanks for the help.

Realistically, the subpanel will be limited to 30A (by the 30A breaker that feeds it on the main house panel). I'm not going to feed it 100A, because I'd have to increase my house panel from 200A to 300A. That sounds like a permit from the city and $2500 - that ain't happening. I'd buy an 8000W generator for $1000 instead - pretty sure I have to do that anyway.

Also I have no ground rod (in the ground) from this panel, do I need that?

I understand that if any part is not to code then it's not to code. At this point I'm only entertaining the possibility of being "to code" within the panel. If that's not possible then it's back to "my own code" which is just make it safe & keep movin'. This is all pretty easy, very much appreciate the tips & background knowledge.

I see you rigged it up already, but why would you need to upgrade your 200 amp main in order to feed a 100 amp sub? You wouldn't. I'm thinking with some of your questions and concerns you'd be better off hiring an electrician to look it over and go from there. I'm all for saving money, but sometimes it's not worth it.

 

[Sodo]

why would you need to upgrade your 200 amp main in order to feed a 100 amp sub? You wouldn't.

Hmmmmm don't recall where I got this. If it's not true that makes things easier if I ever have to make this "to code". Sounds like I just have to change my double 30A on the main house panel to a double 100A and use proper feeders for 100A out to the garage? Good to know but doubt this will ever happen. Appreciate the clarification.

 

[Furu]

You already said in an earlier post that you would not upgrade your 10 ga wire so don't do it unless you change the wire gauge.

Maybe your term "proper feeders" is a new run of wire to support 100 amps but not clear from your statement.

 

[Draagyn]

Didn't really all the comments, but from a certified electrician, that's a 240v panel. You are good to go. Grab a 2 pole breaker and slam it in!

 

[Sodo]

Currently the #10ga feeder wire will support 30A; it's coming off a 30A breaker, all safe & good. Not planning to do any more work on this.

You already said in an earlier post that you would not upgrade your 10 ga wire so don't do it unless you change the wire gauge.

Maybe your term "proper feeders" is a new run of wire to support 100 amps but not clear from your statement.

Yes that's what I meant. I'm quite happy that there are just 2 more steps to be compliant (but I'm not planning to change anything). My understanding that the (minor) steps needed to bring it up to code are:

-remove the 30A and insert a 100A double breaker in the main house 200A panel
-change #10 feeder wire to (the proper size) to the garage subpanel.

====== BUT BEFORE I COMMIT THIS TO MEMORY ============

If electricians are willing to give this a look, I'd like to clarify this issue of "200A service" and adding "100A breakers to supply the subpanel.

Here's a pic of my house panel currently, with totals at the bottom. Since passing the inspection, I've added the 30A garage '(230v double) and 3 smaller "doubles" over the years, and thought (each time) that I was "pushing it" and someday I'll reorganize and take the doubles out. I had good excuses though! For example I wanted a dedicated circuit for the sump pump in case the basement flooded. I wanted the refrigerator and the freezer on a low-usage circuit (separated from dishwasher). And I added a central vacuum, which was 12A itself.

Someone said that I wouldn't have to upgrade the 200A service to add a 100A subpanel. If this is still 'true' then I am preparing myself to be amazed. Here's a pic of my house panel, just to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Really appreciate you guys giving me your time.

 

[mikehaugen]

Well, for one, the 30 amp breaker for the garage is only 30 amps, not 30+30.

Your main 200 amp breaker is 200 per leg. So to really be accurate you could add up each individual draw off each leg and theoretically they should be close to balanced... but it doesn't matter anyway because you can total more than you main.

Each circuit needs to have wire size appropriate for it's respective breaker, but not all circuits are going to be pulling full load all of the time. But if you have enough of the circuits pulling enough load that they total 200 or more then the main trips. (Highly unlikely)

You could have 100 20 amp breakers (2000 total) but each circuit is only pulling 1 amp, then you are really only at 50% capacity.

 

[Rock knocker]

By code you could have a 200A service feeding a 200A panel, then a 100A breaker feeding a 100A sub feeding a 100A sub ad infinitum