Help! First tractor - Deere vs Kubota vs New Holland

[EdC]

Jay
Hope you get well soon, I am amazed you have enough energy to type; double pneumonia really takes it out of you.

 

[Metropolis_488]

So I drove to EFC today after work to check out some tractors.
Buck was very cool and helpful. I some areas I am more confused and in others I now have a better understanding.

I think Buck has me convinced that the Iseki TA263F is the tractor for me; however, I am still considering the TC30. If I put $3k down on either tractor, and finance the rest, due to New Hollands great financing deals right now, I could be driving a new tractor for only $40 a month more...hmmmm

 

[RoyJackson]

So I drove to EFC today after work to check out some tractors.
Buck was very cool and helpful. I some areas I am more confused and in others I now have a better understanding.

I think Buck has me convinced that the Iseki TA263F is the tractor for me; however, I am still considering the TC30. If I put $3k down on either tractor, and finance the rest, due to New Hollands great financing deals right now, I could be driving a new tractor for only $40 a month more...hmmmm

Would that leave adequate funds for the implements you need?
The TC-30 would have better resale value down the road. And, it's highly unlikely New Holland will be going out of business.

Good luck in your decision!

 

[Turbys_1700]

So I drove to EFC today after work to check out some tractors.
Buck was very cool and helpful. I some areas I am more confused and in others I now have a better understanding.

I think Buck has me convinced that the Iseki TA263F is the tractor for me; however, I am still considering the TC30. If I put $3k down on either tractor, and finance the rest, due to New Hollands great financing deals right now, I could be driving a new tractor for only $40 a month more...hmmmm

I'm sure that Buck if a fine dealer and will support you but personally, given those financial facts, I would go with the TC30.

On a side note, I owned A Yanmar YM 1700 for 14 years. Parts are not an issue but, in 14 years of service, I didn't need any. Yanmar makes great tractors. If they are good enough for John Deere, they are good enough for me!!! I'm a BIG FAN OF YANMARS.

Now I will say this. That for the same size of tractor, my 1720 NH is better at ground engaging work than my old Yanmar. For the most part, Shibuars ( I never could spell that word) are heavier than their Yanmar counterparts in the same HP class. That makes them better for ground engaging work but harder on mowing. That's why I liked my little Yanmar so much. Lots of power in a lightweight package.

Good luck in your decision and let us know what you got.

 

[Metropolis_488]

So, I decided on the TC30.
Simple, powerful tractor with a great price ($11,750 w/o loader).
I'll add the loader next spring and just do work with the mower and box blade for now.

Thanks to everyone for all the great advise!

 

[GA WTDeer]

Nice!!! Wear it out!!!!!Clay

 

[Z-Michigan]

Congrats! I think you will be very happy with it.

 

[jbrumberg]

Metropolis 488:

Congratulations on your anticipated tractor ! Use it safely and well. Jay

 

[Harold_J]

Metropolis:

Good luck with your upcoming purchase and vineyard venture.

Will you be running a sprayer in the vineyard or are you planning on some type of organic farming where a sprayer wouldn't be used? (I guess even some organic methods involve spraying of approved materials like sulphur and oils).

If at some point you are going to be running an airblast sprayer in a mature 30 acre vineyard I would just check to be sure your anticipated purchase can handle it power and weight wise and is narrow enough to fit between mature vines. You mentioned going to narrower row spacing which seems to be the trend in vineyards so just double check dimensions.

If cost were no object the New Holland dealer probably gave the best advice about choosing a specialized vineyard/orchard model, powerful but narrow enough for the job. 30 acres will be a significant sized vineyard and when it needs spraying it will all have to be done in a very timely manner. But sometimes because of $$ concerns a compromise must be made. Good luck again.

 

[Metropolis_488]

Metropolis:

Good luck with your upcoming purchase and vineyard venture.

Will you be running a sprayer in the vineyard or are you planning on some type of organic farming where a sprayer wouldn't be used? (I guess even some organic methods involve spraying of approved materials like sulphur and oils).

If at some point you are going to be running an airblast sprayer in a mature 30 acre vineyard I would just check to be sure your anticipated purchase can handle it power and weight wise and is narrow enough to fit between mature vines. You mentioned going to narrower row spacing which seems to be the trend in vineyards so just double check dimensions.

If cost were no object the New Holland dealer probably gave the best advice about choosing a specialized vineyard/orchard model, powerful but narrow enough for the job. 30 acres will be a significant sized vineyard and when it needs spraying it will all have to be done in a very timely manner. But sometimes because of $$ concerns a compromise must be made. Good luck again.

This is something that confuses the heck out of me. Buck at EFC was telling me that he puts air blast sprayers on 17 hp yanmar tractors with no problem. 150 gallon pull type and either 50 or 100 gallon three-point. Then the new holland dealer tells me that's impossible. As I was at the dealer, there was an orchard owner saying he pulls a 300 gallon air blast sprayer with no problem with a TC29A!!

I figure worst case scenario, I just get a smaller sprayer and have to make more trips. Maybe by the time I get to planting 30 acres of vineyard I will have enough cash to buy a TN70F...

 

[RoyJackson]

This is something that confuses the heck out of me. Buck at EFC was telling me that he puts air blast sprayers on 17 hp yanmar tractors with no problem. 150 gallon pull type and either 50 or 100 gallon three-point. Then the new holland dealer tells me that's impossible. As I was at the dealer, there was an orchard owner saying he pulls a 300 gallon air blast sprayer with no problem with a TC29A!!

I figure worst case scenario, I just get a smaller sprayer and have to make more trips. Maybe by the time I get to planting 30 acres of vineyard I will have enough cash to buy a TN70F...

I'll tell you an old military saying...take it as you will...

Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see...and you'll be somewhere near the truth...

 

[Z-Michigan]

I bring no great level of expertise, but I will note two things I've observed:

1) I buy a certain size tractor in order to be able to safely do various things. Most dealers tell me this is the right size; one says I could have gone slightly smaller, another tells me I have to go a size larger for round bales. I use the tractor for a while - 82 hours now - and I find it works easily for all the tasks I'm doing, no real issues in terms of size or strength. Then I keep reading here and see various people doing all the same tasks with 2/3 as much tractor. Sure, mine probably does it a little more easily, but it clearly is being done with less tractor.

2) Now step away from US market. We are used to big equipment. If you start reading up on farming around the world, you'll find in many cases our "homeowner" tractors would be full size commercial production tractors in other countries. I suspect this may be why there are so few US-made CUTs. I wouldn't believe something can't be done until you find it can't be done, and it still can't be done with advice from other people. I would, however, be very mindful of safety considerations; for instance, pulling carts or handling round bales on slopes - there, you want a greatly oversize tractor for safety.

 

[jbrumberg]

Z-Michigan:

I completely agree with you (and Roy). I have always believed and have practiced that smaller can be better. It is a function of application/technique. My real farmer neighbor at times would "test" me with creating tasks for my old Ford. He acknowledged years later that he was surprised at what that little tractor could do. I worked the same property with both a Ford 1100 (13/11HP) for 20+ years and now work the same property with my
NH TC29DA (29/23+HP) for ~2 years. The same job gets done, it just happens a little more quickly and efficiently. I wish I had kept data on fuel used by both tractors. Jay

 

[VABlue]

Why in the world would anyone need a huge tractor to run a sprayer that could cover two rows of vines? Unless you want a big ag sprayer and put booms over the vines to cover several rows (which would be more efficient time-wise), I don't see a need. Weight of the full tank should be considered, but if that isn't too much any tractor can run the sprayer. As always, it comes down to doing things in compromise - less $$ available = slower; more $$ = faster. Neither is wrong and neither is right, enjoy what you're doing and you can't go wrong...

Enjoy the purchase, Metro, and good luck with the grapes. (Send some wine our way when its ready!!)

 

[EFC]

Roy, I know you don’t like Greys, but half of my weekly parts sales are providing parts from Japan originally built for greys to support Ford, massy, Allis ect because they are obsolete in the US. The worst offender is Ford which accounts for a couple calls a day for parts that are now only available in Japan.

Since the TA263 is bolt for bolt a massy 1240 it is as hard to get parts for as that. Except the TA has more bells and whistles.

When the New Holland dealer in Walla Walla sells half as many tractors to vineyards in a year as we sell in one month I will concede he knows more about what works in a vineyard than I do.

Here is the Arbus 200 air blast 42" vineyard sprayer on a 16hp Yanmar. It is our demo model we take out every week. If it didn’t work I would surely look like an *** at every demo, right.

Buck

 

[EFC]

Here is our Demo setup for the Arbus 500 behind the 18 horsepower Yanmar FX18D. The other picture is with the same sprayer behind the Deutz Agroplus 70S. The only difference between the two setups is only $33450.00.

Buck

 

[RoyJackson]

Roy, I know you don’t like Greys, but half of my weekly parts sales are providing parts from Japan originally built for greys to support Ford, massy, Allis ect because they are obsolete in the US. The worst offender is Ford which accounts for a couple calls a day for parts that are now only available in Japan.

I don't ever recomend a grey tractor since dealer support is so sporadic. You might be a great dealer and a wonderful human being, but if you went out of business or retired, odds are your customers would be SOL. The person succeeding you (if the business stayed open) may be not be as supportive as you may be.
And, if the manufacturer isn't willing to support the product...well, that's not a good sign.
Why don't you try for a dealership with one of the major manufacturers/distributors? Even a start up like Kioti or Mahindra (and others), both of which build for the US market.

A lot of folks buying these small machines don't have a lot of mechanical skills. Just read TBN for a while and you see this. Some, if they wish, will learn to do some of the work. However, in good conscience, I could never recommend a tractor (grey market or really old American iron) that doesn't have solid dealer support. However, it's up to those folks to make their decision

 

[EFC]

Roy, there are literally hundreds of grey dealers like me that support the grey mkt industry. I have piles of aftermarket catalogs that cover replacement parts for grey far better than the aftermarket companies that support the name brands. I have had grey mkt competition tying to knock me out of the game for years so I have no fear they will pick up the ball and run with it the second I am gone. Where there is money to be made there are always people willing to make it.

Since I am a Deutz Fahr dealer which is literally the Lamborghini of the tractor world and has been building tractors since 1894, does that make me a legitimate enough dealer? That is 25 years longer than JD.

Buck

 

[RoyJackson]

"Since I am a Deutz Fahr dealer which is literally the Lamborghini of the tractor world and has been building tractors since 1894, does that make me a legitimate enough dealer? That is 25 years longer than JD."

Well, not really the Lamborghini of tractors since Lamborghini also builds (or built...don't know if they're still building them) tractors...pretty nice ones too (at least from what I saw in the mid 70's when I was stationed in Italy).
CORRECTION: Just did an internet search Lambo tractors are sold through Duetz Fahr in Europe

Anyway, you don't have to justify your existence or business to me. No matter what you say, I won't buy a machine that does not have a solid dealer network in the US, nor would I recommend one to a buyer.
You may well have a very substantial business...or, maybe you don't. I've no idea...but I have had experience with grey markets (with me, it was cars...mostly German) which, more often then not, resulted in unhappy owners.

But again...if you can sell your wares...more power to you.
But I'm not one to recommend them.

 

[EFC]

You may well have a very substantial business...or, maybe you don't. I've no idea...

I know

But I'm not one to recommend them.

I think that is a plus