HELP welding a stub shaft

[the old grind]

Ron, I didn't mean to put you on the spot, more to be upbeat & encouraging. Of course, by increasing the OD I meant if starting over vs any welding option, and my nod to you was for your presumably having seen patch-up welding jobs crumble vs suggesting you'd really whip up a part for any sort of compensation. Ok, so maybe someone would agree that the wisdom of your experience seeing stuff break down could be of value. I apologize to any and all if I've gone too far with my support/confidence because I look up to you guys.

I see little hope for the OP's broken part/pieces (or Barry1's), and had hoped Ron could 'watch over' his task from here ... perhaps see a red flag the rest of us might miss from having seen similar (the 'go-to guy' part). (CM, I wasn't confused by the pictures, but I'm sure others will be)

OP, I wouldn't say you have to start over with a 'new' piece, only that I fear you'd would eventually. I like to put pride and my own work into what I operate too, but as good as some of these options sound some seem nearly as much time/effort as one would put in to fab what can't be found OEM or equivalent. Shafts don't always weld-up, for reasons explained above (thanks, chrisw), and a sickle bar is a 'shaker' with a lot of wild stuff sure to happen to this one in the field. Anyway, you might as well try something with what you have available. Costlier options only loom if it doesn't work out for ya. tog

 

[Coyote machine]

The old grind, I didn't say you were confused by any pics? I quoted HV and his rant about this thread being a joke and us not being able to see....

 

[the old grind]

CM, s'ok. (Did I say others would be confused?) I'd rather not wander OT with you on this, but will gladly give a guy a mulligan for something we all do sooner or later. (Lord knows I've been forgiven a time or two.)

We all have a chance to learn something here besides 'who knows/sees what', and other than having to toggle between pics more crudely than other sites that use VB little makes a thread more difficult to follow to the letter here than our side discussions that dilute good info such as has been provided by these gents. I'll look back to see what else you've posted to this thread & as always I'm sure there's something of value therein. btw: I suppose you could ruffle my feathers along the way, but you haven't yet. (Back to the mower & shaft?) tog

 

[chriswheeler]

I missed the woodruff key strip as well. That kind of a load on that keyway leads me to say the only good fix on this one is a new shaft. Any welded stub shaft isn't going to handle the load that caused that keyway problem. Any good machinist can make this shaft, but you are looking at a day + work making it. $150 to fix ??? I don't think so. Shops in my area run shop time @$200 a hour. You would be lucky to get it out the door for $1000. Even me making this one at home for fun would be over $500 + steel costs. ( no I don't want the job, enough of my own running now ) Find a retired machinist with the lathe and mill at home that might pick it up for fun. You might just be better off looking in crag's list for a brush hog to replace and update that mower, turn what you have into yard art.
Chris

 

[Sodo]

I'd rather not wander OT with you on this?.Back to the mower & shaft?) tog

appreciated - too much OT will scare off the guys who can fix this kind of problem, and that's the experience I need most and ASAP before this thread gets bloated.

Thx for $$ reply chris. Since it's more than $200 (as expected) I'm more interested in help welding a stub on. I'll bet if the Cubans had internet , and joined TBN they'd post a half dozen fixes that took a half-morning and no $ at all. People in 3rd world fix their stuff, and breakdowns for them have a higher cost than for us, not just embarrassment on the internet.

I have a great brush hog but it doesn't mow underneath bushes. Brush hog can't cut the weeds that the wheels knock down, they just stand up again the next day, and reversing is too hard on my neck. And it gives the grass a hard time whenever there's a lot of material batting around inside the brush hog, then belches up big steaming piles of black compost. Brush hog is great for the first cut but I'm on the 3rd year with this field and its my entrance and I want it to look nice. My Dad says "2-4D will solve your problem"?. A sickle (?in my mind?) just lays the cut grass down evenly.

There are many ways but i'm convinced for the moment that a sickle will cut the weeds before they go to seed, and give the grass a chance to dominate. If I'm wrong I don't want a lot invested in it.

So here's where I'm at currently:

At this point it seems like I should just weld on an oversize the shaft stub (1.25") and use a browning split hub with a 1/4" keyway and hope it survives a small tractor mowing weeds twice a year at half throttle. And if it comes loose maybe just weld the split hub directly to the shaft.

And I'll weld a sleeve over the entire weld as in "C".

Anybody tried this before? Where is a good place to get the Browning for a 1.25" keyed shaft, and the adjustable sheave to fit it?

 

[npalen]

McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr
McMaster has these taper lock bushings but not sure if they have the size pulley (sheave) that you need. I'm guessing that your proposed fix will work just fine for the light duty application that you mention. I ran a sickle mower many hot windy days back on the farm with "fond" memories.

Edit: Flanged type bushing McMaster-Carr

Edit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/370634332178
Don't know your belt size.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

SODO,

Seems like you are committed to a course of action so here is some follow on to consider. There are 4 power transmission suppliers listed in the Seattle phone book. And there are numerous Industrial Suppliers listed. There are probably 6-10 manufacturers of split hub sheaves. Probably several of those stock Browning. I have never bought power transmission items in this area. Where do you live in Seattle? If in the North end drop in at Ballard Hardware, they are big suppliers to the marine trade. I used to live in Ballard and went there a lot. What they don't stock they can get. Most of the manufacturers of this stuff do not sell direct to the consumer. Buying on line or catalog sales guys like Mc Master charge an arm and a leg for shipping and they charge premium prices for the one at a time sales. A 1 1/4 shaft is a standard size. singe belt split hubs will be the hardest to find. I don't ever remember using one, multiple belts, they are almost a must. Based on the rest of that machines components you are probably wasting money on a split hub and might as well used a solid cast sheave at probably 1/3 of the cost. Get one that has Allen set screws on the shaft as well as on the key-way. I have had split hubs come loose when not torqued up fully same as solid hub. Unless something has a lateral adjustment to compensate; you will probably make several trial fits to get the torque right and the belt lined up for a split hub. Make sure you get the right belt width, "A", "B", "C". Might as well get new belt(s) while you are at it.

Ron

 

[Sodo]

Wow. I want to thank you guys. I will start to digest this and report back when I have something. I think I will take my wobble box off & bring it back to Seattle. (…..in case I get stuck and have to take a side trip to Olalla)

 

[chriswheeler]

I think any welding without the threaded stub going into the body of the shaft ( I take it that a lathe is not available ) going into the original part, is a waste of time and money. The welding will warp what ever you are welding on ( the stub ) and it can't run center without turning it after welding. Cost of a split hub will be a waste as well, no way to center it. That keyway tells the tale about the load. There are plenty of talented people out there doing exceptional repairs to scrap parts to save something, and doing it well. Don't think this is going to end up being one of them. All of that said, I wish you best of luck, I sure haven't seen it all. Here is one last idea though, there are several tractor wreckers and salvage yards up your way, I'd check with them, you might just find one sitting there, anyone's guess what they might want for it if they had it.
Chris

 

[Sodo]

Chris, if I had access to a lathe I would not be avoiding it, more like dreaming up excuses to use it!

it can't run center without turning it after welding

Thats a given, but a 105 inch belt drive has some tolerance for wobble. And being a sickle mower the thing is likely to vibrate anyway.

Upsizing to 1.25" shaft doubles shaft strength so the weld has to be half as strong as original. Fingers crossed and wallet put away. And still hoping for a used shaft to turn up. Can't throw money in a hole, I'm saving up for a bigger tractor :licking:

 

[npalen]

Any developments on this project?

 

[Coyote machine]

+1.
I'd like to see a resolution to your issue too.....

 

[Sodo]

Wellllll started taking it apart and got this far. Pretty sure the shaft is mild steel - it deforms when i hit it with the hammer. Still have to get the shaft outta there.

Having a hard time deciding on the proper 9" adjustable sheave (for 1.25" keyed shaft). There are several types of browning split bushings / sheave combos. I want the one that grips the shaft tightest but havent yet figured out how to evaluate them. 1.25" keyshaft at McMasterCarr is $20.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Wellllll started taking it apart and got this far. Pretty sure the shaft is mild steel - it deforms when i hit it with the hammer. Still have to get the shaft outta there.

Having a hard time deciding on the proper 9" adjustable sheave (for 1.25" keyed shaft). There are several types of browning split bushings / sheave combos. I want the one that grips the shaft tightest but havent yet figured out how to evaluate them. 1.25" keyshaft at McMasterCarr is $20.

SODO,

You could spend a lot of time finding something cheaper and reject a lot of them over that. Browning is an old line of power transmission products and you cannot go wrong there. I would not buy the sheave until I had a successful repair job in hand though.

I really did not understand what the piece of machinery was until I ran across this on the net Equipment for sale.

It sure looks like yours. This is the power input shaft to the sickle power wobble head gear box which is different scenario from what I was thinking. Have you tried to get a new shaft from MF the original manufacturer that is still making machines? There are a lot of parts suppliers on the internet, you would need to call them. There are number of vintage parts guys also.

I have not changed my opinion yet in that you need a replacement shaft rather than trying repair. A little search on the net and Craig's List you may find one of those as a parts machine.

Ron

 

[Sodo]

Your link is to a Massey "MF 41" it has a welded plate-steel wobble box. Mine is an MF 31 which has a cast wobble box. Cranks for the 31 are NLA the only way to get one is used and all my searching hasn't turned one up yet but I'd dearly love to find one or the whole wobble box.

Inside the box are counterbalancers that wobble opposite the sickle. Lots going on in there.

Good call on doing the welding before buying sheaves. A Browning sheave may cost $200.

 

[whis]

tractorhouse shows mf31

 

[Sodo]

Friend suggested to have a driveline repair shop weld the 1.25" keyshaft stub onto the wobble crank. Probably wouldnt be the first time they had to figure out how to align & weld shafts together. Thoughts?

 

[MHarryE]

At both Gleaner and Case-International we had problems with sheaves loosening and wallowing out when we used tapered shafts with keys so we settled on what I recall as 1" coarse thread. Even though in theory the wobble box is braking for half the stroke, sickle friction and cutting forces result in driving torque being greater than braking torque so the pulley always stays tight. Actually at Gleaner our first wobble box drives were purchased from International Harvester and we tried tapered shaft with key when we designed our own but quickly discovered why IH had gone with threads. Our reason for the taper is the threaded ones tighten do much during use a person always needs heat to get the sheave off. But on a combine we were driving up to a 30 foot sickle. Your failure reminds me of what our protos with the taper looked like, especially when a steel pickup reel tine got into the sickle. Not sure if you could find a used sheave from an old grain head and modify your shaft end to work. We had several different sheaves - different diameters for speed changes and more cast iron for flywheel effect to smooth out the belt whip.

 

[Sodo]

MHarryE thats very interesting! I can see how that might stay tight, and I guess a guy could add a jam nut too.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Here's my thought's for what they are worth. I looked at the part on the Agco Parts web site. This is not an easy part to make. I would take it to a good welding machine shop and have them repair it. I'd be tempted to use just a straight browning hub. The pulley could be machined out to fit the hub. And then I thought about adapting a wobble box to work in there. And then the more I think about it..... Just go spend your money on a mower that does what you want it to do and that you can still buy parts for. I know!! I don't like to throw stuff away either but this to me looks like a repair that in the end is just going to break again. There is just too much heavy stuff being thrown around inside that gearbox. That's my thoughts.