help with a 6 finger clutch

[Turbo]

I have a new 2008-09 284 Jinma and would like some adjustment info on the 6 finger clutch witch this tractor has, but my manual show the 3 finger adjusment.., and my parts book will show the 6 finger but no info...
any body have these measurements?

 

[Affordable]

Are you adjusting the main clutch or the pto ? Look at the clutch 3-of the fingers have adjusting bolts and nuts,3-do not the measurements are the same as a 3-finger,1-1/2" free play in the pedal,the 3-main clutch fingers should be a 1/8" from the throw out bearing

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Turbo]

Tommy: I didn't plan on adjusting any thing other that the T-bearing distance.
I just wanted to make sure that the measurement between the main 3 fingers and the PTO 3 fingers were at there proper distance from each other, or do you think I can trust the bench set up done at the manufacture before they install the clutch pack as bing right? Have you found the clutch packs out of adjustment? I have only adjusted the from the outside throw to the t-bearing clearance ,and readjusted the safety switch from bing hit first before the PTO stop...

Thanks for the reply.... I am an aircraft technician , and in my field if I don't have a rule for it or a measurement I get nervis....

 

[greg_g]

any body have these measurements?

You can't trust the clutch to be set up by the manufacturer. Reputable dealers do the alignment before bolting the two halves of the tractor together. Crate tractor buyers must do it themselves.

Assuming we have the same 6 finger clutchpack - I have the measurements. But it would help to know why you think it needs adjustment in the first place. And all six fingers can in fact be "adjusted" by the way. But the three you can't see are done as part of the initial stack height adjustment procedure done during assembly. Since those three are situated back on the flywheel side (as opposed to the throwout bearing side), it's kinda hard to "adjust" them through the inspection window.

Again assuming we have the same clutchpack, basically what you want to see through there is

• the three main drive fingers parked 2.5mm away from the TOB face. For proper bearing wear, all three fingers must be aligned so as to be equidistant from the face.
• The three PTO fingers resting 6mm behind them, or 8.5mm from the TOB. Also aligned to be equidistant (bolts by the flywheel).

But these numbers don't tell the whole story. They're technically achieved during the bench alignment, as part of the 101.5mm stack height and finger alignment procedure. Once installed on the tractor, the external pull rod is adjusted to obtain the final 2.5mm TOB gap.

//greg//

 

[Affordable]

Greg,How does a Reputable dealer do that ? split a new tractor to adjust a 6-finger clutch to check the adjustment(I bet your not going to find many doing that ).Not many of the Jinmas came with the 6-finger,I do keep them in stock and believe you can adjust all 6-fingers thru the inspection cover,I will confirm that today.If your PTO is not grinding when you try to engage it you are prob.OK anyway on the PTO.I have found that most of the 3-finger clutchs are out of adjustment from the factory,Foton 25hp used alot of the 6-finger clutchs

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales Co
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[2rex2]

JUst replaced mine and used 2.6 inch. worked just fine, then looked through the side cover to adjust free play. terry I/A

 

[greg_g]

Greg,How does a Reputable dealer do that ? split a new tractor to adjust a 6-finger clutch to check the adjustment(I bet your not going to find many doing that ).Not many of the Jinmas came with the 6-finger,I do keep them in stock and believe you can adjust all 6-fingers thru the inspection cover,I will confirm that today.If your PTO is not grinding when you try to engage it you are prob.OK anyway on the PTO.I have found that most of the 3-finger clutchs are out of adjustment from the factory,Foton 25hp used alot of the 6-finger clutchs

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales Co
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

There are so many contradictions in that paragraph, I don't know where to start. So I guess is will have to be with an admission that I thought you received crated tractors - and assembled them yourself. If not, I have to rethink the whole concept of what constitutes a "reputable dealer"

//greg//

 

[Affordable]

I do,and have seen hundreds more than you " Thats a Fact ", you said you have to stack adjust a 6-finger clutch and said that Reputable dealers should do that, I was just pointing out if thats how you have to adjust it according to you how would a reputable dealer do it on each crated tractor(without splitting it ) ? We adjust every 3-finger dual stage clutch on each tractor that we assemble, how many have you done ? Really Done besides your own.

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales Co.
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore "
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Turbo]

You can't trust the clutch to be set up by the manufacturer. Reputable dealers do the alignment before bolting the two halves of the tractor together. Crate tractor buyers must do it themselves.

Assuming we have the same 6 finger clutch pack - I have the measurements. But it would help to know why you think it needs adjustment in the first place. And all six fingers can in fact be "adjusted" by the way. But the three you can't see are done as part of the initial stack height adjustment procedure done during assembly. Since those three are situated back on the flywheel side (as opposed to the throwout bearing side), it's kinda hard to "adjust" them through the inspection window.

Again assuming we have the same clutch pack, basically what you want to see through there is

• the three main drive fingers parked 2.5mm away from the TOB face. For proper bearing wear, all three fingers must be aligned so as to be equidistant from the face.
• The three PTO fingers resting 6mm behind them, or 8.5mm from the TOB. Also aligned to be equidistant (bolts by the flywheel).

But these numbers don't tell the whole story. They're technically achieved during the bench alignment, as part of the 101.5mm stack height and finger alignment procedure. Once installed on the tractor, the external pull rod is adjusted to obtain the final 2.5mm TOB gap.

//greg//

OK Greg let me get this straight, your first sentence you say not to trust the manufacture of the clutch pack then your next statement your asking me why do I think it needs adjustment? doesn't the first sentence answer that?

trust me it is a 6 finger clutch pack, are there more than one kind of 6 finger clutch pack for Jinma 284?
since I did buy a crated tractor, your saying I have to split the tractor to make sure the clutch is adjusted right? you know to be reputable and all..lol
joking aside.....

if mesurements are techniiclly achieved during the bench alignment, and that algnment can be trusted than all that's needed is the TOB adjustment and total throw adjustment stop..

 

[greg_g]

OK Greg let me get this straight, your first sentence you say not to trust the manufacture of the clutch pack then your next statement your asking me why do I think it needs adjustment? doesn't the first sentence answer that?

No. The path to the customer is typically manufacturer>dealer>customer. From my experience, it's the dealer (who assembles the tractor) that is responsible for ensuring the clutch is adjusted properly prior to sale. When a customer elects to go the crate tractor route instead, then the responsibility falls to him/her. I now know into which case you fall. So having assembled your own crate tractor -yes. If you want to be absolutely sure - the tractor may have to be split. It just depends upon how many of the adjustment points you can reach through the inspection ports.

I don't know if there's "more than one kind of 6 finger clutch pack for Jinma 284", my guess is no. But I do know that there is more than one kind/size of six finger clutchpack. Mine is a nine-incher in a TaiShan 354, which is why I made that qualification earlier. And based upon what little I can see in your photo, I'm beginning to doubt we have the same clutchpack.

if mesurements are techniiclly achieved during the bench alignment, and that algnment can be trusted than all that's needed is the TOB adjustment and total throw adjustment stop.

That is correct - the qualifier being that you have confidence your dealer actually did that, or if it was simply slapped together straight outa the crate.

//greg//

 

[Turbo]

well it looks like your clutch pack is different than mine yours has three adjustments mine has 2 though the fingers.
with a clutch pack set up on the bench and adjusted properly can you take the PTO push rod and measure the distance between the pressure plate and adjustment nut and use that as a GO or NO/GO gage to check for proper measurements of the others and do the same for the main clutch?

My problem is I can't believe that Jinma company would throw a clutch pack in that's not properly set up other than clutch pedal adjustment throw, and not question the engine, transmission, rear end, integrity ,and host of other thing that make up the tractor... I have to trust something were do I start..

 

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

Reputable dealers do the alignment before bolting the two halves of the tractor together. Crate tractor buyers must do it themselves.

//greg//

GOOD LORD !....... where do you come you come up with this stuff ??? You really make it hard on the guys seeking help.

I have to rethink the whole concept of what constitutes a "reputable dealer"

//greg//

What constitutes you defineing a reputable dealer greg ??


Turbo, sorry I have not has a Jinma 6 finger in the shop yet. I make be able to help you if you can email me some detailed pictures.


Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[greg_g]

GOOD LORD !....... where do you come you come up with this stuff ??? You really make it hard on the guys seeking help.

Um, that doesn't make any sense. You admit never even having seen a six finger clutch, and Tommy admits never having adjusted one.

I've done three, all quite successful.

Now I'll grant you that it's beginning to appear that Jinma and ShanDong don't use the identical clutchpack. Nevertheless, I'm actively trying to assist the OP with - if with nothing else - at least some generic six finger clutchpack experience. So how does this make me the bad guy here?

//greg//

 

[Turbo]

Thank Ronald , Tommy, and Greg for helping. your knowledge on these tractors are needed and without you we be lost....The tractors coming out are changing all the time and it's apparent that my clutch pack is a new stile, so new that the operation manual hasn't been updated with the new spec. or adjustments,, the old spec I can't trust.. totally different clutch systems... so if any one of you have a new 6 finger clutch in stock it would be a help to all of use you would post pictures and messuments... or I will buy a burned out clutch to analyze...and I will post my findings... Thanks

 

[Affordable]

Turbo,I have the new 6-finger clutch assemblies in stock,and they are not factory adjusted.If you need me to take you some pic's let me know.

On a side note I'm a pilot also,owned/flown several airplanes from Cessna 172XP,Seneca II,58 Baron,King Air 90.Currently don't own one,with the economy the way it is a friend of mine is a corp.pilot says there are alot being repossesed and some great deals out there.


Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma parts Superstore "
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Turbo]

That would be grate if you take picture and messurments...
I know that when I push in the clutch all the way my PTO stops, it rein gages about 1/4 release , hard to tell with my foot...
now I only have 10 hours on it,, and when shifting into 1,2 or 3 it will grind in ,, my brake is on I am stopped, I even throw my clutch in all the way and let the PTO stop.. and no matter what I do I can't get it to stop grinding in.. shuttle shift some times...
any ideas

 

[greg_g]

If this is your first gear type tractor, perhaps you don't realize that there are no synchros - either for the tranny for the shuttle. Shifting the tranny on the fly requires a lot of practice to minimize grinding, and even with double-clutching a "grind free" shift is not a given. Shuttle shifting MUST be done with the tractor at a COMPLETE halt.

The 1/4 engagement does make it sound like a clutchpack alignment may be in order. But one other simple adjustment may avoid having to split the tractor. If it still grinds putting the tranny into gear with the (running) tractor at a complete halt, the problem may be in pedal travel. When you push the clutch pedal all the way down, it strikes a stop bolt sticking out of the side of the bell housing. If that's out too far, the pedal doesn't make full travel - and the drive clutch will not fully disengage. Loosen the lock nut on the stop bolt, turn the bolt clockwise a few turns and try again. If/when you find the point where the grinding stops, dog down the lock nut.

Understand that there are variations between/among many of these Chinese tractors, so this description is generic. It's compiled from what I've seen on those KAMA/TaiShan/Foton/Jinma tractors that I've worked on over the years. But hopefully it's close enough to your setup to be of some assistance.

//greg//

 

[Turbo]

I adjusted it to it's maximum throw, and if you notice the start switch is at its min. length , for me to have the arm move any farther in, I have to move the switch/ Becket to some place else... the clutch does disengage , but the gear chirps/grinds to stop the gear rotating as it goes in...
I am well aware of the straight gearing in the tractor, and it doesn't have syncs,, the funny part of it is I can up shift on the fly, ( on the move)
without any grinding... but stopped it will chirp every time...

please explain what a clutch pack alignment means and how you go about doing it.. and what measurement you use...and where you get the info from...

there is no dealer around me ,, so as far as you need to know I am the dealer... and I have to repair, fix or adjust it... your very knowledgeable
and your help is appecated... thank you.

 

[greg_g]

please explain what a clutch pack alignment means and how you go about doing it.. and what measurement you use...and where you get the info from..

It involves setting the stack height, then leveling the two sets of fingers so - once the tractor is reassembled - the two sets of fingers will be equidistant both from each other, and from the TOB face. In some cases this is done on the bench, in others you can do it while the clutchpack is still bolted to the flywheel. But I've never seen an inspection window big enough to do one from the outside. Splitting the tractor is pretty much a given.

As far as the specs, it's unsafe to assume that the ones I gave you (for my clutchpacks) apply to yours. There's an overall stack height, there's the distance between the two sets of fingers, then there's the fine tuning to equi-distance each of the six fingers. The numbers I gave you earlier actually came from my operations manual (not the parts manual). But it appears that your clutchpack is newer than the operations manual that came with the tractor. Tommy and Ronald are clearly in the same position as you; new style clutchpack, no specs.

At this point, I see four alternatives

• do nothing and live with a little noise,
• wait for Tommy or Ronald to come up with something
• split the tractor and try my specs
• split the tractor and use trial and error to develop your own specs

Before considering mine though, understand the numbers I gave you are based upon a stack height of 101.5mm. If yours is significantly different, it's probably best not to rely on my numbers at all.

//greg//