Help with adding weight.

[rbtjr]

Some thoughts: First, we have R4 tires on our Kubota L3800. On the L3800, the rims for R4 tires do not allow for adjustments to spread out the rear wheels. We added 4" after-market spacers on both rear wheels and it made a big difference in stability. Second, we have the water and antifreeze in the rear tires, like we did with predecessor tractors. That was something like 650 lbs total, and it also helps a lot. (I have read about Rimguard a good bit, and if in fact it would allow us to put much more weight inside the rear tires, I will have Rimguard installed.) Third, we always keep some kind of ballast on the 3PH. There are numerous links on TBN about ballast. When we are not using another attachment, we use for ballast on the 3PH our heaviest attachment--the Bush Hog pulverizer at 590 lbs--and add to it five 36 lb weights in the tray on top of the pulverizer. The ballast on the 3PH also helps a lot. But of all of these things we do, by far the most beneficial is spreading out the rear wheels.

 

[motownbrowne]

I need to look at prices of maple syrup now.

Due to the Canadian exchange rate, maple syrup bulk prices are way down. For the cheapest grade (commercial) I think packers are currently paying somewhere around $1.00-$1.25 per pound. Not too far from the cost of steel weights, I guess.

 

[aTexasYankee]

Well I mentioned the fuel because it's true but not a big concern. Some members on here are over the top on concerns so I brought it up for covering my bases.

About the 220lbs/wheel. That is cast weight per wheel and not liquid ballast. My much larger tractor is only allowed 190lbs of steel weight per wheel but I'd be comfortable going to atleast double that. The big benefit to liquid is the weight is directly on the ground and not on the axles.

Appreciate it. Is there risk of other damage (transmission, brakes, axle, etc.) by loading tires up?

Some thoughts: First, we have R4 tires on our Kubota L3800. On the L3800, the rims for R4 tires do not allow for adjustments to spread out the rear wheels. We added 4" after-market spacers on both rear wheels and it made a big difference in stability. Second, we have the water and antifreeze in the rear tires, like we did with predecessor tractors. That was something like 650 lbs total, and it also helps a lot. (I have read about Rimguard a good bit, and if in fact it would allow us to put much more weight inside the rear tires, I will have Rimguard installed.) Third, we always keep some kind of ballast on the 3PH. There are numerous links on TBN about ballast. When we are not using another attachment, we use for ballast on the 3PH our heaviest attachment--the Bush Hog pulverizer at 590 lbs--and add to it five 36 lb weights in the tray on top of the pulverizer. The ballast on the 3PH also helps a lot. But of all of these things we do, by far the most beneficial is spreading out the rear wheels.

After market spacers... Hmm. Is there a negative to doing this?

Due to the Canadian exchange rate, maple syrup bulk prices are way down. For the cheapest grade (commercial) I think packers are currently paying somewhere around $1.00-$1.25 per pound. Not too far from the cost of steel weights, I guess.

I used to make maple syrup when I was in CT and had maple trees. I could drink the stuff. Here in Texas I ask for maple syrup at a restaurant and I get Aunt Jemima or the premium Log Cabin

 

[SPYDERLK]

In Texas you have the opportunity to use water for ballast. Fill or drain according to task. ~ Free. Leaks no problem. Etc.

 

[aTexasYankee]

In Texas you have the opportunity to use water for ballast. Fill or drain according to task. ~ Free. Leaks no problem. Etc.

It does get below freezing here during winter, wouldn't I have to worry about that? And do I not have to worry about rust? This is new to me.

 

[SPYDERLK]

It does get below freezing here during winter, wouldn't I have to worry about that? And do I not have to worry about rust? This is new to me.

I use water in my 7520 here in Virginia. Theres not any trouble til Jan when the day/nite average tends to get below freezing. It takes a lot to freeze the tires much and if I can get them to crackle when I push on the side walls theres no problem. I would think your conditions are warmer and yould never get more than a thin skin of ice. Rust is no problem as rims are always painted inside. At 10yrs I saw no rust when I had a flat fixed.

 

[fried1765]

Extra weight makes the tractor more useful IMO. The mowing and the mud are the only downsides I see to adding weight. lb for lb liquid in the tires of your choice is the cheapest way to add ballast. Wheel weights are nice because they can be added or removed depending on your needs but they run about 1$/lb. Your owners manual should have a chart that says what an appropriate amount of ballast for your machine should be. This is not a hard and fast rule but more of a guideline. Also, look and see if you can adjust the track width of your rear tires. That alone will add alot to the stability of your machine.


Steel weights-bolt to the hub 1$/lb as a rule of thumb
Weight on the drawbar is not a good idea because you can't use it then. It may interfere with your hitch.
Filling tires is the most economical and can be free if you use water to whatever the local guys charge for rimguard/beet juice. Rimguard is brought up because its the heaviest liquid/lb that is environmentally friendly that you can put in your tires. Water is around 8.3lb/gal and rimguard is around 13lb/gal. This doesn't sound like much but for 100gal, you could have 830 lb or you could have 1300lb. What you choose is up to you and your climate. If you decide to use water ,most antifreeze additives lower the lb/gal except salt adds.

Water/rv antifreeze is DIY if you have some hand tools, rimguard can be but dealers would do this. installation cost is not that much.

Theoretically there is a fuel penalty for adding weight to the machine. However, the increase in weight will give you more traction (Normal force x static friction) and should be able to produce more work done per unit time. So its a net benefit.

(Rimguard) "installation cost is not that much".
OH ??? Really??? Must be that depends on where you live.
Nearest dealer charges $75 per tire (13.6 x 24), and $3.25 per gallon, and I would have to drive 170 miles round trip to the dealer.
Rimguard =38 gal. x 2 tires = 76 gal. x $3.25/gal. + tax = $262.44 + $150 charge to fill 2 tires = $412.44 + the cost for me to drive 170 miles.
Too rich for my blood!
I used -20F WWF
I bought 80 gal. = $120 incl tax.
$10 fitting from TSC to install.

RV antifreeze (Polypropylene Glycol) is NOT cost effective!
Automotive antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol) is sweet, and ATTRACTS animals to their death.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

(Rimguard) "installation cost is not that much".
OH ??? Really??? Must be that depends on where you live.
Nearest dealer charges $75 per tire (13.6 x 24), and $3.25 per gallon, and I would have to drive 170 miles round trip to the dealer.
Rimguard =38 gal. x 2 tires = 76 gal. x $3.25/gal. + tax = $262.44 + $150 charge to fill 2 tires = $412.44 + the cost for me to drive 170 miles.
Too rich for my blood!
I used -20F WWF
I bought 80 gal. = $120 incl tax.
$10 fitting from TSC to install.

RV antifreeze (Polypropylene Glycol) is NOT cost effective!
Automotive antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol) is sweet, and ATTRACTS animals to their death.

The cost is not that much when you compare it to $1/lb min. or more for cast weights. To get the same weight as a gallon of rimguard you would spend at least $11 for the steel. (rimguard weighs around 11-12lb/gal) Looks a little better now doesn't it? I had the dealer load the tires when I bought the tractor so it wasn't a big deal. There is nothing wrong with WWF except that its alot lighter than the rimguard is. I wanted as much weight as possible in the tires and its still not enough with the front end loader even after I added cast weights. I have to run a counterweight if I want to use the full capacity of the loader.

As for the antifreeze, you don't fill the whole tire with it, that would be silly. You only add enough to keep the water from freezing.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Appreciate it. Is there risk of other damage (transmission, brakes, axle, etc.) by loading tires up?
....

Minimal. Some people get their shorts in a wad over loading the front tires or chaining just the front tires. Use your head, take things slow, and enjoy the greater utility of your machine.

 

[bdog]

Every tractor I have had the tires were fluid filled and I never had any problems due to it. The only downsides I can think of is if you get a flat it makes a mess and harder to fix. Also moving around loaded tires is hard to do. If you have to take them off for some reason and they fall on you it would be bad news.

 

[varmint]

Great thread... a mini-course in adding weight. My 2 cents worth: as noted, spreading the rears is good for stability, but won't help traction. Adding weight helps traction, but damages turf areas by compaction. Filling tires is ideal, if compaction isn't an issue. Calcium chloride is used a lot of places, but rots rims unless you have tubes. Rimguard might cost some, but it solves all your problems and adds max. weight, unless you are prone to flats.

I chose to build a 3 point weight box, which is easy to put on or remove, depending on what I will be doing, and spread the rear wheels. But I have compaction issues to worry about in the summer- and that's with turf tires.

 

[bdog]

A lot of this stuff must be regional. Tire shops here have never heard of rim guard or beet juice. They use methanol water mix. Methanol is the ingredient in washer fluid.

 

[aTexasYankee]

Hmm, so now I have to think about this. I already have issues with digging in because of wet ground and mud. Seems adding weight might be a bad thing now.

 

[grm61]

Great thread... a mini-course in adding weight. My 2 cents worth: as noted, spreading the rears is good for stability, but won't help traction. Adding weight helps traction, but damages turf areas by compaction. Filling tires is ideal, if compaction isn't an issue. Calcium chloride is used a lot of places, but rots rims unless you have tubes. Rimguard might cost some, but it solves all your problems and adds max. weight, unless you are prone to flats.

I chose to build a 3 point weight box, which is easy to put on or remove, depending on what I will be doing, and spread the rear wheels. But I have compaction issues to worry about in the summer- and that's with turf tires.

Varmit this is a a common misconception with CL filled tires.Rust is oxidation, you need air for this to happen.
On a tubed tire, filled with CL 0r any thing els,e the enviroment between the tube and the tire is a perfect enviroment for rust,warm wet and not airtight.
All it takes is a pinhole in a tube...some tubes will leak/sweat through osmosis, and rot out the wheel between the tube and the tire.



I try not to give advice on tires, as there are to many experts out there.
I'm an OLD tire guy still have a Calcium pump...I filled the rears on my DK tubeless, with CL, 50 gal water at 8.6 ls per gal and 3, 50lb bags of CL mixed in per tire.That gets the fluid just abovc the stem/wheel no air no rust:thumbsup: 50gal x8.6for the water=430bls +150lbs per tire for clacium =580lbs per tire x2=1160 bls added ballast..this turns your tractor into a whole different machine. Doing water or ww wiper juice while better than nothing is kind of a waste of time ...go heavy or go home, use Rimguard or calcium, 75% full...don't wast your money. :thumbsup:

 

[TheMan419]

Hmm, so now I have to think about this. I already have issues with digging in because of wet ground and mud. Seems adding weight might be a bad thing now.

I am a newbie to all of this too. Up here in Indiana water filled tires is not an option due to freezing temps in the winter. Also the land I have is flat and a lot of places will get muddy. So during the spring all the extra weight is not good.

Having just used the FEL to dig a hole I can absolutely see the benefit of extra weight. However with the need to remove the weight, I think the first attempt will be a 3 point weight box. That will be the easiest to add/remove as needed. Some people will use an implement as weight. That is fine too, but I am thinking if I have the bush hog attached then maneuverability is going to be compromised.

It seems to me going with the weight box is going to be just easier at first. If more weight is needed then I can consider other options.

 

[AxleHub]

I searched. Quite a bit, actually, and couldn't find a thread specific to what I'm asking, only responses in other topics.

I'm less than a year and under 100 hours on my Kioti. It feels a little "tippy" to me at times and I'm usually pretty good at sensing when balance is a little too far off. In reading lots of other threads I've seen where adding weight, low, can help with stability. That makes sense, but I not sure how to go about it and which is the most effective, both in practice and economically. I also don't want any extra wear and tear or maintenance if I can avoid it.

There's weights you can bolt on to the tires? How does that's work? Like an steel hubcap? Cost?

Weight installed onto the draw bar? Cost? Will this interfere with any 3pt attachments?

Filling tires with liquid? I'm already out on the calcium stuff... But the windshield washer fluid or RV coolant, how well does that work? How easy is this to do DIY and what damage can I cause going this route?

Will I see any significant draw back to adding weight? My uses are light dirt work, driveway maintenance, digging swales with BB, landscaping rake, mowing a few acres of grass (RC for now, but will eventually get a finish mower), and general wheelbarrow uses. I get muddy on parts of the property, should I avoid extra weight? Will the extra weight tear up my lawn when mowing more?

Thanks!

I thought I'd wait a few pages before responding to the original op starting thread.

The thread started about the tractor feeling "tippy" . . . but weight seemed to become the focus. I didn't see anyone ask what "tippy" meant by the op. If "tippy" means front to back . . then weight ballast makes sense as a focus. But if "tippy" means side to side . . then those who mentioned spreading or wheel spacers makes sense.

The op asked if there were negatives to spreading or spacers . . and the answer is yes if you use a bucket for snow removal because your wheels stick out wider than the bucket. Of course the same would be true if using the bucket for final leveling or back dragging in dirt too. And of course tires wider means taking up more width going thru doors or in a shed or garage etc..

But the advantages are many. Spacers are a one time investment and they add very little weight while increasing sidehill stability. And because the wheels are spaced a bit wider . . small mud holes or depressions may be made easier to transition because of that added inches of width.

And if using a mmm . . there are spacer limits too because of mmm clearances (thread is supposed to be more univetsal effort).


Regarding lawns and adding weight . . . Compaction is often mentioned. But compaction is a result of numerous things. Cutting on wet soils increases compaction. And different soils makes for different compaction results too. So dry clay with good sod doesn't easily compact . . while wet black dirt compacts easily.

Relating to tires getting loaded for weight after original purchase:
1. Rimguard can be gotten in different ways. If you take the wheels off thevtractor and take them to the installer . . It will be cheaper. Also if you contact 4 or 5 rimguard authorized installers (rimguard can give you a radius listing of your area) you will likely get various labor and fluid pricing.

2. RV antifreeze comes in 2 types . . both rated for 40 to 50 below degrees (to slush). Pricing can be cheap ir expensive depending on whete and when you get it.

3. WWF comes in summer blend and winter blend. Some have additives and some have very little other adfitives. Best wwf ratings are minus 20 degrees.

4. Calcium chloride and water. Salt eats metal and can age rubber.

5. Water and car antifreeze.


#1 gives you the greatest ballast weight and is safe and harmless but costs more and gives great longevity. #2 if you're a shopper you can get this for very little more than wwf but for better results.

A wheel is a rubber tire, steel wheel and rubber or metal valve stem. Each of those materials should be considered when loading tires imo.

Ballast weight is a good thing. But use the amount when needed and in the amount needed not more imo. More mire more isn't automatically better. Imo

 

[aTexasYankee]

I thought I'd wait a few pages before responding to the original op starting thread.

The thread started about the tractor feeling "tippy" . . . but weight seemed to become the focus. I didn't see anyone ask what "tippy" meant by the op. If "tippy" means front to back . . then weight ballast makes sense as a focus. But if "tippy" means side to side . . then those who mentioned spreading or wheel spacers makes sense.

The op asked if there were negatives to spreading or spacers . . and the answer is yes if you use a bucket for snow removal because your wheels stick out wider than the bucket. Of course the same would be true if using the bucket for final leveling or back dragging in dirt too. And of course tires wider means taking up more width going thru doors or in a shed or garage etc..

But the advantages are many. Spacers are a one time investment and they add very little weight while increasing sidehill stability. And because the wheels are spaced a bit wider . . small mud holes or depressions may be made easier to transition because of that added inches of width.

And if using a mmm . . there are spacer limits too because of mmm clearances (thread is supposed to be more univetsal effort).


Regarding lawns and adding weight . . . Compaction is often mentioned. But compaction is a result of numerous things. Cutting on wet soils increases compaction. And different soils makes for different compaction results too. So dry clay with good sod doesn't easily compact . . while wet black dirt compacts easily.

Relating to tires getting loaded for weight after original purchase:
1. Rimguard can be gotten in different ways. If you take the wheels off thevtractor and take them to the installer . . It will be cheaper. Also if you contact 4 or 5 rimguard authorized installers (rimguard can give you a radius listing of your area) you will likely get various labor and fluid pricing.

2. RV antifreeze comes in 2 types . . both rated for 40 to 50 below degrees (to slush). Pricing can be cheap ir expensive depending on whete and when you get it.

3. WWF comes in summer blend and winter blend. Some have additives and some have very little other adfitives. Best wwf ratings are minus 20 degrees.

4. Calcium chloride and water. Salt eats metal and can age rubber.

5. Water and car antifreeze.


#1 gives you the greatest ballast weight and is safe and harmless but costs more and gives great longevity. #2 if you're a shopper you can get this for very little more than wwf but for better results.

A wheel is a rubber tire, steel wheel and rubber or metal valve stem. Each of those materials should be considered when loading tires imo.

Ballast weight is a good thing. But use the amount when needed and in the amount needed not more imo. More mire more isn't automatically better. Imo

Lots of good information, thanks! When I said "tippy" I meant front to back and side to side. I am concerned about being on inclines sideways and when, mostly, but also when using the FEL. I guess I should have been more specific. Being new to all this makes it a little harder to explain my original reasoning for adding weight. Since I do use it for turf mowing, and have a wide variety of soils (loam, clay, caliche) and poor drainage in areas (I'm working on that) ruts are a big deal to me.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I thought I'd wait a few pages before responding to the original op starting thread.

Relating to tires getting loaded for weight after original purchase:
1. Rimguard can be gotten in different ways. If you take the wheels off thevtractor and take them to the installer . . It will be cheaper. Also if you contact 4 or 5 rimguard authorized installers (rimguard can give you a radius listing of your area) you will likely get various labor and fluid pricing.

2. RV antifreeze comes in 2 types . . both rated for 40 to 50 below degrees (to slush). Pricing can be cheap ir expensive depending on whete and when you get it.

3. WWF comes in summer blend and winter blend. Some have additives and some have very little other adfitives. Best wwf ratings are minus 20 degrees.

4. Calcium chloride and water. Salt eats metal and can age rubber.

5. Water and car antifreeze.


#1 gives you the greatest ballast weight and is safe and harmless but costs more and gives great longevity. #2 if you're a shopper you can get this for very little more than wwf but for better results.

A wheel is a rubber tire, steel wheel and rubber or metal valve stem. Each of those materials should be considered when loading tires imo.

Ballast weight is a good thing. But use the amount when needed and in the amount needed not more imo. More mire more isn't automatically better. Imo

Rimguard does not offer the highest liquid weight; only the highest price. It is rated at 30% heavier than water, whereas CaCl solutions go 36 to 40% heavier. ... Plain water is the way to go if you possible can. A small metal weight can make up the difference. That way tire ballast is infinitely adjustable on whim and never becomes a liability.

 

[TheMan419]

Rimguard does not offer the highest liquid weight; only the highest price. It is rated at 30% heavier than water, whereas CaCl solutions go 36 to 40% heavier. ... Plain water is the way to go if you possible can. A small metal weight can make up the difference. That way tire ballast is infinitely adjustable on whim and never becomes a liability.

Liability would be if you live in Northern Indiana and we will have months where it is below freezing for the high temp. Ice filled wheels are no fun.

But yes water would be great if you lived in the South.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Lots of good information, thanks! When I said "tippy" I meant front to back and side to side. I am concerned about being on inclines sideways and when, mostly, but also when using the FEL. I guess I should have been more specific. Being new to all this makes it a little harder to explain my original reasoning for adding weight. Since I do use it for turf mowing, and have a wide variety of soils (loam, clay, caliche) and poor drainage in areas (I'm working on that) ruts are a big deal to me.

Loading your tires will help with the side to side tippy feeling as well, not as much as widening your stance, but its still noticeable.

Rimguard does not offer the highest liquid weight; only the highest price. It is rated at 30% heavier than water, whereas CaCl solutions go 36 to 40% heavier. ... Plain water is the way to go if you possible can. A small metal weight can make up the difference. That way tire ballast is infinitely adjustable on whim and never becomes a liability.

Most people have written off CaCl almost right off the bat due to the numerous downsides but its always mentioned because of the upfront cost and availability. Plain water is not the best way in the cold climates. I use my tractors to move snow as well as all the summer chores. 12lb/gal for Rimguard is ALOT more than 8lb/gal for water. I don't know if you consider 50% more weight per gallon alot, but I sure do. One other thing, the highest weight by far is steel weights at around $1/lb where water is free.

My tires are 16.9-30 rears and take 73 gallons from messicks website. So for water that gives me 584lbs and rimguard gives me 876lbs. Difference of 292lbs per tire or 584lbs total. I can only add 198lbs/wheel in steel my manual says. Even now with rimguard and one set of weights, I still need a counterweight(1700lbs) to use the full capacity of my loader. YMMV.




Liquid Tire Ballast Chart