Help with Zero Turn Choice

[Raleighfirewall]

My LT has worn out and I'd like to replace it with a Zero Turn. I'll be cutting about 2 1/2 acres on a gentle to moderate slope, 60% 10-15 degree slope, 40% less than 10 degree slope, with a few trees. This property is located at our weekend lake getaway so I'm looking to save mowing time which will equal more lake time.

I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to three brands in order of preference, Hustler, JD, Toro.

I can get the Hustler Fastrak with 21 h.p. Kawasaki and two Hydro-Gear ZT-2800 hydro drives and 54" deck for $4890 + tax. A step up to the Fastrak Super Duty, 25 h.p. Kawasaki with commercial air filter, larger tires and not much else for $6K + tax. These Hustlers come with the same trannys and a 4 year warranty. Step up to the Mini Z and you get 10 cc hydr-gear pumps and motors, 19 h.p Kawasaki and larger rear tires and 52" cut for $6,500 + tax with a two year commercial warranty.

John Deere Z445 with 25 h.p. Kawasaki, 54" stamped deck with a Kanzaki (Tuff Torq) duplex pump with Parker wheel motors and two year warranty for $4960 out the door.

A Toro Z Master, Z400 I beleive, with 19 h.p. Kawasaki motor with 10 cc pumps and motors and 48" cut for $6500 + tax.

I really like the Hustler Fastrak/Super Fastrak because of the deck and warranty. They really seem to be built the heaviest for the $$. My hesitation is with the Hydro-Gear ZT-2800 transmissions and size of the rear wheels and tires. I can't see the price difference for the Fastrak Super Duty over the Fastrak. The increase in h.p. really jacks up the price. The JD Z445 is a nice looking unit, the price is right but I worry about the pump (singular) and drive motors. I've read that this is the drive system on their 7xx seies commercial mowers of the past but not the present Z5xx and Z 8xx. The deck and warranty are another concern. I do like JD's 30 return policy. The Toro is the least researched on my part. I just saw the mower briefly and it looked heavy duty and was only $500 more than the Fastrak Super Duty.

So, the question is, is the Hustler Fasttrak the way to go. Are the ZT-2800 trannys a commercial drive system that will give many, many years of trrouble free service? Will the JD Z445, purchased from a JD dealer, be my best bet for the $$? Should I consider the Toro further?

I'm looking to do something fairly soon. I would like for this mower to last me 15 + years. Thanks in advance for your help. This is a GREAT forum!!!

 

[prosperity]

As I have only had Deere equipment, I can only comment on them.

Don't be afraid of the Kanzaki pump and Parker wheel motors. This setup has been on their commercial line of 7xx series ZTraks for years now. I was told that the Z445 has the exact same pump/motor setup.

Actually, Deere redesigned their new ZTraks to a different system for 2008, with 2 separate sealed unitized pump/motor setup - the reviews I have seen on this system are up in the air yet (some problems).

Anyway, if your only concern is the pump/motor setup on that unit, don't worry about it - a tried and true system that has been working great for Deere for at least 5 years now.

 

[shot_gun]

+1 on the Z445. 48 or 54 Out of all the zero turn mowers that JD currently manufactures the 445 is second only to the 997 diesel Z. I cant speak on the hustler's and fast track's. Drive all of them and see which one feels like the best for the money. That would be my suggestion.

 

[Will_C]

Look them all over and find the one you like. The Toro and the Mini-Z are true commercial machines. I just purchased a 23hp/52" Toro Z4??. It has the Turbo Force deck and the canister-style air filter, and larger pumps (12cc?) The main reason I purchased it was the local dealer, I know that I would have been as happy with a Scag, Exmark, Hustler model that was comparable in terms of features, but I would have paid more. I paid $7200 for the Toro.
Will

 

[CJ4]

Take a hard look at Bad Boy if you have a dealer around you.

 

[tcarter1]

I just bought the Hustler Mini Z, 19 Hp Kawi, 52" for less than 6K. New 07 model. Local dealer has a couple, plus I saw the same setup/price on eBay. Seemed like a great value to me.

 

[SCOOBY14B]

I had a 52"/19hp Mini-Z for two long miserable years. The machine itself was ok, but the hp was way too low for that size deck. The deck itself is also way too shallow. Less than 4" makes for a poor cut on Fescue if you're gonna cut anything over 2.75".

Now own a Scag Turf Tiger and couldn't be happier.

 

[Tractech]

Of the three you are considering for only 2.5 acres the Hustler is by far a much better machine. The Toro and Deere are not even on in the same playing field. Deere relies on the paint to sell and as for there hydro system it is not a good design. I worked for deere in the past and "Quality Z's" are not there cup of tea. They use a stamped deck which they will brag is a 7 gauge steel. ( Yea only on the flat spots) the corners and bends ti is not able to take a beating. Yes they lok pretty but quality is what keeps you mowing and the Hustler stands out. If there is a Dixie Chopper dealer neat you that take the time to look at there new Iron eagle and the Silver eagle. Iron eagle is comparable to the Hustle mini and the Silver Eagle is there entry commercial duty mower. The Iron eagle has the tras. on each axle but it is completly different in design for dixie. The oil passage have been changed for better lubrication and the shaft is a 1" as compared to most others it is 3/4". Dixie or Hustler is your best choice for years of happy service. Dixie and Hustler are Pioneers in this Zero turn industry and others like to copy. Hope this helps you. In case you are wondering I own Dixie, Hustler, Snapper, Exmark. My two best machines are by far the Hustler and Dixie. Don't buy into the whole deep deck thing either. Most of the deep deck stuff is selling tactics. The do have some advantage in select situations but they can also be disaster as well because they create more area for grass to collect in the deck. Just ask the Exmark gurus of all the problems they had with the new "deep" deck thay introduced a couple of years ago. Blade tip speed is everything!!
Ok I guess that about coverit. You wanted opinion and that was mine from about 20+ years experience in the industry.

 

[koop]

Personally I am a Scag Turf Tiger guy. Seem like they built mowers like tanks.

Toro was the other mower I looked at seriously.

So if you don't go Scag, go Toro!

IMHO

 

[tiger9297]

I looked at all models almost exactly a year ago. I went with a Grasshopper. Grasshopper only builds commercial grade mowers so they are all built like tanks. I absolutely love it. I know they are a little more expensive. I could have bought a number of comparable mowers made by different companies for less money, but the Grasshopper just seemed like a better built unit. Deck is welded plate steel. Nothing stamped. If you haven't considered one at least take a look before you buy.

 

[Tractech]

Grasshopper like every other mfg. makes the low end machines with the individual tras. unit. Commercial grade is a very gray area and to say the are all commercial crade is very misleading. The spindles really make the deck. Scag, Dixie, Gravely, use cast iron where other like Grasshopper use aluminum. Everyone has there opinion but you have to dig beneath the looks and get the true spec. Ask the dealer for the spec sheets on the mowers. (ie. weights, materials, blade tip speed, hydro pump size, etc.) Unless you are buying a box store type zero turn than you will be ok with most any brand for residential use. The best advice is to stay away from any z with a stamped deck. If it is not a fabricated deck don't buy it.

 

[Dargo]

Scag, Dixie, Gravely, use cast iron where other like Grasshopper use aluminum.

And your point is what?? I noticed that the concrete trucks hauling concrete for me last week, which weighed around 90,000 pounds, had Alcoa aluminum wheels on them, aircraft that weigh hundreds of thousands of pounds have airframes made of aluminum, some heads on 5000 hp dragster engines are aluminum. Other than aircraft, where weight would be an issue, wouldn't these other examples use cast iron if it were inherently stronger?

I've purchased many zero turn radius mowers and I can't say that I can agree with your selection process. Many mowers are very good, but some are unbelievably bad. The intended use for the mower also plays a big part in what mower would be most appropriate. And, FYI, I still own an old Grasshopper that has had over 1500 extremely hard hours put on it and there is zero play in any of the deck spindles. It's hard to say how much longer they will last since there is no real measurable wear yet. I'm just not buying the "aluminum parts are bad" theory.

Heck, I even prefer my beverage of choice in an aluminum can rather than a cast iron one. But, I'm just contrary like that.

 

[Will_C]

Some good advice on this topic. There does seem to be a gray area between residential and commercial zero turns. The Toro that the original poster was inquiring about is a commercial machine, not quite as featured as the 453 model that I purchased, but a machine with a heavy fabricated deck, seperate hydro pumps and wheel motors, and a Kawasaki engine. The Mini Z and the Toro mentioned by the OP are comparable. The Deere and the Fast Track are comparable machines.
Compare specs, demo the machines, and pick the one you like best, as long as you are comparing "apples to apples, and oranges to oranges."
Good Luck,
Will

 

[tiger9297]

The statement that Grasshopper makes low end machines "like every other manufacturer" is just plain false. Toro, JD, Cub Cadet, etc all make low end machines that are very light weight with stamped decks made from thin metal. To put it bluntly- They're cheap. True, not all Grasshoppers are $10k machines but they do not make a machine like the ones mentioned above. When was the last time you saw a Grasshopper sitting in front of Lowe's? The other manufacturers make great high end machines that are comparable to the Grasshopper. I'm just saying that Grasshopper focuses on the high-end market only. Even their small frame machines (which is what I have) are built just like the large frames.

 

[wushaw]

Dargo; You forgot that GM Duramax diesel uses aluminum heads which were suppose to melt in 2001.

 

[firefighter9208]

I just bought a Grasshopper 223 (23 HP Kohler Command Pro) with 54" deck yesterday. I paid $7240.00 out the door with extended handles (I'm 6'9" tall) and headlights.

I did a lot of research and started to go with the Kubota, but they didn't offer extended handles.

Grasshopper shouldn't even be discussed in the same thread with the Toro and JD units that can be purchased at Home Depot etc... This machine weighs in at 1070 pounds and has individual drive motors and pumps. This is definately a commercial mower. Oh yeah, BTW it's made in Kansas and all the bolts (except the ones on the engine) are standard sizes.

Chris

 

[Tractech]

For all the response to alum. I am glad you all know your difference in the alum. used in wheels, heads, and your cans. Fact is the cast iron spindle will handle the impact better than any alum spindle. The reason so many companies use alum. is the cost. It is cheaper for them to put on the machines but not when you go buy one!
Fact- Grasshopper does make a checper unit like the others! I never said it was built like a Crapsman. I said they made a cheaper unit. Each person has there opinion and through my years of sales, use, and mechanic if I am buying a mower it will have the cast spindles because of the factory training and mfg. experience I have been involved in through the years. But then again I am picky and expect my equipment to last and not repair it everytime I take it to the yard, or the track!

 

[tiger9297]

I say again that the statement "Grasshopper like every other mfg. makes the low end machines" is false. Grasshopper makes different models. They are different prices because they are different sizes, have different engines, different options, etc. It is ridiculous to say that b/c some models are priced lower than others, they are "cheap" or are "low end". They make more than one model and the models are priced differently. It's not rocket science. All Grasshopper mowers are high-end commercial grade mowers. The low end mowers that are made by JD, Toro, etc. that sit out in front of Home Depot are "cheap". Grasshopper does NOT produce those type mowers. End of story.

 

[wushaw]

Yes I will agree that cast is stronger than aluminum. Although I did break a cast spindle on my Snapper RER, a stump can do that.

There is also something else to consider why Grasshopper or any other manufacture may use aluminum spindles is aluminum will dissipate heat faster than cast will to remove the heat from the bearings, so that maybe the reason aluminum is used instead of cast.

I only have 87hrs on my 322D Grasshopper and all I have had to change is the battery, I know it may take many more years before I ever have any spindle problems...as long as I can keep it away from any unknown stumps.

 

[Dargo]

The reason so many companies use alum. is the cost!

Um, have you checked the prices of aluminum lately?? It's high enough that I've heard many stories about aluminum siding being stolen off of people's homes. It used to be that electric companies only had to lock up their copper wiring due to thieves, but now they will grab aluminum wire as well. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. Fifteen hundred hours on my Grasshopper spindles, with no measurable wear, says you're wrong. If my aluminum spindles only last 5000 hours, oh well.