Hey gsxr1100 and others.

gsxr1100 · Apr 25, 2005

So you are using Gas turbine oil and not hyd fluid? Also these filters, as you stated, custom made and not the norm. Nor are they for tractors.

My point is that we can’t compare apples to apples here with we are talking custom made filter etc. That would be like me bringing in aerospace items that are not the norm, not made to the public or to expensive to use. That we be like me bring in air bearings for my BX22. Or our filters on jets that go down to very small microns. Again, they do not get brought up since they will never be used in the norm. LOL

There are exceptions to every rule.

Soundguy · Apr 25, 2005

( not the norm. Nor are they for tractors ) ( Again, they do not get brought up since they will never be used in the norm )

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Gotta love it when the tides turn.. heck.. what if this is one of those 'hobby' issues.. after all.. somewhere.. to somebody.. this might be a hobby.. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Soundguy

gsxr1100 · Apr 25, 2005

tides turn???? There is a time when it becomes pointless since I could show you dozens of examples of filter, oil, many mechanical/ electrical etc but why bring them up? It is not added benefit here. Example, I could bring up oils that cost over $ 150 per gallon but why? I could post on plastics that outperform metals but why? I know aircraft go to 0 and some are 2 microns and we able have hyd filters that go just as low. 99.99% of the items will not be used here on TBN, the public can’t afford or buy it and the design to cost is not feasible .

So bring the custom filters, the weight , assy, systems etc into the equation and if they work in the application on the question posted. The original question was “ hydraulic filtration on the tractors” not a building or powerplant. The complete application is different and hence outcomes.

I think job is a better term, not a hobby. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Soundguy · Apr 25, 2005

( I think job is a better term, not a hobby )

NAA.. in your own words.. everything can be a hobby. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Besides.. I was yanking yer chain..... didn't you notice the 3 or 4 smiley faces. Thanks for the show.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Soundguy

gsxr1100 · Apr 25, 2005

I know. I do not have any hobbies or that many and oil is not one. I have things that need to get done. I do not enjoy them and today I do not want to see a Kubota for weeks; Moved way to much dirt (45 yards) this weekend.

Soundguy · Apr 25, 2005

( I do not want to see a Kubota for weeks; Moved way to much dirt (45 yards) this weekend. )

That's a decent mound o' soil.

At least you had the kubota.. otherwise a shovel would have been tough! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Soundguy

gsxr1100 · Apr 25, 2005

yup, even had the BH (overkill) out for putting in inground sprinklers. 15 hours in 3 days is enough to make anyone grouchy on Monday! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

HuckBB62 · Apr 26, 2005

( I know exactly what you are referring to.

I can't remember the micron rating on the hydraulic system filters on the GE frame 6 I now operate or the 7EA DLN I used to operate. I'm in the middle of an outage I'll have to check it out. I'm sure our filters are no where near that fine.

We could have probably used something like that on the 7EA. Used to have orifice plug up on the control oil to the distillate system when transferring to secondary fuel nozzles. )

Briguy, our Moog valves are the ones that suffer from locking up. The silt damning and varnishing are the two evil doers. Nothing sucks more than the dreaded "Hydraulic Protection Lockout" alarm eh?

A lot of companies are going to electrostatic filtration. We had a few but the support for them was horrible, it's just easier to stick to the tried and true. I had Hilco build up a custom filter skid mounted where our old fuel valve used to be. We too are DLN and when we went DLN, we moved the gas fuel valve out to a separate skid with the splitter valves. I've been keeping the particulate count down below ISO standards for hydraulic fluid (13/11 and lower) but that long run out to the new gas skids is a problem. No matter how clean the oil is, all mineral based oil has varnish in solution after a few years. Whenever a mineral based oil gets below 140 degrees, the varnish starts falling out of solution, and you can well guess that the Pall filters and moogs catch the junk.

Filtering it down so well on a sidestream filter really does help for two reasons. One, the particles themselves. Even though the particles are too small to actually cause a hydraulic control valve to lock up by sticking between the extremely tight clearance between the spool and cylinder, they build up in what's been termed "silt damning". The low flow, stagnant area around the spool allows any and all particulates and varnishing product to build up where they effectively mortar the cylinder in place. I suspect this may be your problem. (we used to be dual fuel, GOD I hate dual fuel machines!) 2. By keeping the particulate count low, you prolong the additive packages life because by removing the particles, the load on the additive package is less thereby allowing the additive package to not be depleted too early and it performing optimally.

We have the main bank filters at 1 micron beta 75 filters. Really, they're just trash screens because our sidestream keeps the count so low. It's really nice to not have to change the mains so often (as you well know how fun of a job that is!) The sidestream filter has it's own pump. If you're interested in the Hilco filters that we use and maybe installing a sidestream filter, Gordon or Chris Grimstad can help you GRIMSTAD FILTRATION They're the absolute best people and worked hard with me to get my sidestreams manufactured and installed. You can mention Huck in Bakersfield and they'll know exactly what you're talking about.

I mispoke about my sidestreams. I have the info to go to .25 filters but chose the .5 micron filters in our sidestream cannisters. They've given me the right balance of length of service and kept the oil appropriately cleaned.

HuckBB62 · Apr 26, 2005

( So you are using Gas turbine oil and not hyd fluid? Also these filters, as you stated, custom made and not the norm. Nor are they for tractors.

My point is that we can’t compare apples to apples here with we are talking custom made filter etc. That would be like me bringing in aerospace items that are not the norm, not made to the public or to expensive to use. That we be like me bring in air bearings for my BX22. Or our filters on jets that go down to very small microns. Again, they do not get brought up since they will never be used in the norm. LOL

There are exceptions to every rule. )

There's absolutely nothing custom about the filter media we're using. The skid itself is custom but the media can be utilized for any lubricant, or fuel. It's hardly aerospace, or expensive. The only rules is there ain't no rules.

gsxr1100 · Apr 26, 2005

I guess I do not know what this means, as you posted “The media is tight but the filters cost a mint.” Or “custom made Hilco sidestream filter” or “skid itself is custom but the media can be utilized for any lubricant, or fuel. It's hardly aerospace, or expensive.”

Based on these three posting alone I do not think you will not need or find this on a tractor let alone the price. I also do not know what “expensive” means nor the filter ratings (SAE J1858, J806 etc tc ), material, longevity, serviceability, pressure ratings (working etc), By-pass, weight capacity, since the website is less the optimal. Again these filters (most times) are not going to be used on the question posted.

Based on your Beta rating of 75, which is around 98% it sounds like Stainless Steel Sintered microglass media? I asked some guys here at work and we have some in the 200 beta range @ a very low (below 1 micron) which is the norm, but you would never use them on a tractor for various reason.

It is like by-pass filters on a car/truck, they go down below 1 microns but not many people have them.

( The only rules is there ain't no rules. )

In the concepting and not real world this thinking works, but there are rules and when you bring various engineering sectors in, they have rules for a reason and rules work. We have filters (Stainless Steel Sintered I think) on the JSF and work a lot better then ratings posted but if I posted the price on the units from purchasing you would laugh, big time. So for tractor, these filters do no exist since the price is a tad high.