Hiring Someone to Work on Property - Liability

[fried1765]

If OP buys an umbrella policy, he should read it carefully to see the limitations of coverage, especially with regard to his employees. Knowing insurance companies, they have escape clauses a mile wide, maybe even including what constitutes a "qualified employee" . For example, last time I looked at mine, it specified separate liability coverage minimums on my auto policy before their umbrella coverage applied.

As I understand them, ALL umbrella policies require underlying coverage.
The term "umbrella" is used to describe coverage ABOVE (like an umbrella?) your underlying policy coverage.

 

[rv7charlie]

It's been about 25 years since I ran an active business. Back then, in my state, the owner where the work was occurring was responsible for workers' comp coverage of the worker. What that actually meant was that if you were smart, you asked the contractor to show you his certificate of workers' comp insurance coverage. (Almost nobody did that.) If he has a policy, you're protected from workers' comp claims. If you fail to ask or take his word and he lied, and someone got hurt you were responsible for his workers' comp benefits if he got hurt.

Above has nothing to do with any liability litigation, but don't forget that your best friend may sue you if they hurt themselves while visiting you, or even your best friend's *insurance company* suing you after they pay his medical bills ('subrogation').

Hey, if you cross the street, you could get hit by a bus. Risk...Benefit... We all have to pick our comfort zones. I, and everyone I know, uses teenagers to help out fairly frequently.

 

[two_bit_score]

@Username Taken, the high claims cost in Detroit drive statewide premium increases.

 

[marhar]

I am SLOWLY learning that if I am to keep my sanity I need to hire people to help me in life. My goal for the summer is to keep the weeds on my property at bay all summer long Last summer it was a mess, I was too busy with my shop build and the weeds got out of control. All fall I would walk around and end up with a hoodie full of burrs.

I am a school teacher and I plan on hiring one of my responsible enterprising students to weed eat at the property this summer. My question is about liability. I am assuming liability is lessened if you are paying that person to work at your property. Am I correct in this assumption? I do not think he is necessarily going to get hurt, just curious.

Unfortunately you would be liable for their injury. I DO NOT sell insurance. However, here is a copy and paste. I agree with the response regarding an umbrella policy. They are typically cheap for the amount of coverage.

As for the response asking why you would hire a teenage: I am in my 50's and glad I learned how to work and make money as a teen. I did mow a few yards and it taught me the value of work.

The importance of liability insurance for homeowners​

You should care if the person mowing your lawn is not insured, especially if you do not have adequate homeowner's insurance. Whenever you hire someone to perform a service in or around your house, including a teenage babysitter or your neighbor's kid who wants to mow your lawn, you open the door to a potential legal headache should that person be injured. Depending upon the circumstances, you might be financially liable for any injury or resulting disability.

​

 

[Username Taken]

@Username Taken, the high claims cost in Detroit drive statewide premium increases.

Even though they're not supposed to, they often do.

In my State, Florida, our rates are certainly no bargain but we have areas that are cheaper than dirt and areas that are more expensive than anywhere in Dee-troit. We're over twice the size of Michigan, population wise but smaller area wise. Texas is huge. The population is spread out, plus, their people actually know how to drive.

It goes by area. Areas drawn up by the Companies based on Claims Experience. Over 100 of them in the State last I checked (20 years ago). Maybe double that. Lots of them, anyway.

Like in one area of Dade County, Comprehensive is unGodly expensive because there are so many stolen cars there. In other areas, Uninsured Motorist is off the charts because of all the fraud. My area, the Collision is expensive because the people just simply can't drive. And we have millions and millions of people on the roads down here that don't know where they're going (touristas) and have different driving habits. Like a New Yorker is gonna have different driving habits than a guy from Rural Ohio.

Not only that, we have people driving down here that have Insurance Companies that don't do business in our State. They get in an accident, the Cops get all the information but they turn around and kip town. What are you gonna do about it? They pay the criminal (code, actually) fees but when our Insurance Company comes looking for restitution, they tell them to pound sand. And if we want to subrogate, we have to go to THEIR State and.... Good luck with that. So, that gets cost-shifted onto our policyholders, too

The areas are supposed to be Experience Rated.

Michigan? I don't know what's going on up there but the whole State is expensive. Even in areas populated exclusively by bunny rabbits and raccoons.

I have a place in Michigan and I like it. I like the people and I like the small-town-feel of where I am. But there's just something in the water up there. I don't get it. The people they vote into office just amaze me. Unbelievable. I don't see how the citizens manage. Half the State is on welfare of some kind.

I could almost see building my next home there but then I wake up and realize..... You can't afford to live there anymore. It's nuts. Property taxes on my dumpy (and trust me, it is dumpy) little farm up there are over $3,600 a year. While I'm paying $1,200 a year on my $350,000 house in Fort Myers.

Michigan is nuts

 

[two_bit_score]

@Username Taken you are lucky that the tourists in Fla. pay enough taxes that offset property taxes.

Can you get a farm or agricultural exemption on your farm in MI?

 

[MoKelly]

@Username Taken you are lucky that the tourists in Fla. pay enough taxes that offset property taxes.

Can you get a farm or agricultural exemption on your farm in MI?

Not only low property taxes but no state income tax in Florida.

Florida does have more that it’s share of billboards advertising liability lawyers!!

MoKelly

 

[Username Taken]

@Username Taken you are lucky that the tourists in Fla. pay enough taxes that offset property taxes.

Can you get a farm or agricultural exemption on your farm in MI?

Tourists don't really pay their way for the average citizen of Florida to benefit anything from them.

For Big Corp? Oh yeah. For Wally World? Yup, they're making a fortune. Airlines, rental cars, Resorts, Restaurants, Theme Parks, Cruise Lines, virtually all of which is owned by Big Corp.... Yeah, they're getting as fat as a Baptist Minister at an All You Can Eat Brunch

For the average Citizen? No way. Not even close. They use far, far more in infrastructure than they pay in taxes. Which is actually very little believe it or not. They're here for a few days, spend all their money in Hotels, at the Parks, etc. They use the Roads, hospitals, police, food, energy...... We did a study on it a few years ago, they're actually a net loss for the average citizen.

Then they fall in love with the place, decide they like it a bunch more than the socialist craphole they came from, rent a crackerbox, try to make it down here and discover -- It's difficult. Florida is a hard place to make a living. They expect you to actually, you know -- Work! A foreign concept to many.

The older ones come down here and pollute our beaches with cellulite, Jackie-O Sunglasses and fat. White fat. Glistening fat. More glare than staring straight into the Sun-fat. And attitudes. Me-First attitudes with most of them. Like about 90% of them. We got a saying, "They come down with a $5 dollar bill and a pair of jeans. And don't change either one before they leave." The County Commissioners actually had the local Cops, many years ago (30-35?) pull people over and warn them because every 3rd car had a Bumper Sticker that said, "NEW YORK SUCKS!"

It's a thing.

And fat. Did I mention Fat? Lots and lots of fat. Oh, and Shorts with flip-flops and socks or worse, boat shoes and gym socks.

And complaining. They LOVE to complain: "My Cousin Oiving has a place in Joisey where I can get this at half this cost!" Good, go back there

They don't do squat to offset our taxes. We have low taxes because we ran the thieves out of Dodge years ago.

No, I can't get a Farm Exemption. Looked into it. Waste of time. Florida? Oh heck yeah. All you needed was 5 acres and one head of livestock. In fact, I knew a guy that was in the business of renting Cows out to people so they could satisfy the Inspector when he came by. Not sure about now. I doubt it's changed.

 

[MoKelly]

Tourists don't really pay their way for the average citizen of Florida to benefit anything from them.

For Big Corp? Oh yeah. For Wally World? Yup, they're making a fortune. Airlines, rental cars, Resorts, Restaurants, Theme Parks, Cruise Lines, virtually all of which is owned by Big Corp.... Yeah, they're getting as fat as a Baptist Minister at an All You Can Eat Brunch

For the average Citizen? No way. Not even close. They use far, far more in infrastructure than they pay in taxes. Which is actually very little believe it or not. They're here for a few days, spend all their money in Hotels, at the Parks, etc. They use the Roads, hospitals, police, food, energy...... We did a study on it a few years ago, they're actually a net loss for the average citizen.

Then they fall in love with the place, decide they like it a bunch more than the socialist craphole they came from, rent a crackerbox, try to make it down here and discover -- It's difficult. Florida is a hard place to make a living. They expect you to actually, you know -- Work! A foreign concept to many.

The older ones come down here and pollute our beaches with cellulite, Jackie-O Sunglasses and fat. White fat. Glistening fat. More glare than staring straight into the Sun-fat. And attitudes. Me-First attitudes with most of them. Like about 90% of them. We got a saying, "They come down with a $5 dollar bill and a pair of jeans. And don't change either one before they leave." The County Commissioners actually had the local Cops, many years ago (30-35?) pull people over and warn them because every 3rd car had a Bumper Sticker that said, "NEW YORK SUCKS!"

It's a thing.

And fat. Did I mention Fat? Lots and lots of fat. Oh, and Shorts with flip-flops and socks or worse, boat shoes and gym socks.

And complaining. They LOVE to complain: "My Cousin Oiving has a place in Joisey where I can get this at half this cost!" Good, go back there

They don't do squat to offset our taxes. We have low taxes because we ran the thieves out of Dodge years ago.

No, I can't get a Farm Exemption. Looked into it. Waste of time. Florida? Oh heck yeah. All you needed was 5 acres and one head of livestock. In fact, I knew a guy that was in the business of renting Cows out to people so they could satisfy the Inspector when he came by. Not sure about now. I doubt it's changed.

Gosh. I’m glad I am a skinny guy coming down to Fla.!!!!

I can only live there 5 months of the year. If I could make 6 months and a day I’d save some state income taxes - but, I can’t.

Rest of the time - it’s very very very hot and humid. Not livable outside.

Maybe if I had a cow I could claim residency —— ?

MoKelly

 

[Username Taken]

Gosh. I’m glad I am a skinny guy coming down to Fla.!!!!

I can only live there 5 months of the year. If I could make 6 months and a day I’d save some state income taxes - but, I can’t.

Rest of the time - it’s very very very hot and humid. Not livable outside.

Maybe if I had a cow I could claim residency —— ?

MoKelly

You've got yourself convinced, it's not my place to try to change your mind.

I'm sure you're gonna love the downtown area this Summer. Have fun

 

[Aussiekioti]

Sounds like it'd be cheaper to hire a lawyer to do your gardening over there!!??

 

[Captain Dirty]

As for the response asking why you would hire a teenage: I am in my 50's and glad I learned how to work and make money as a teen. I did mow a few yards and it taught me the value of work.

You can still educate a teenager. It might go something like this:

Thanks for coming over to discuss mowing my lawn, Jimmy. I'm going to write down the scope of work, specifically that you will mow my lawn and trim the edges of the driveway and flower gardens, on your schedule, as long as you do it weekly between noon Sunday and noon the following Sunday. You might want to ask your dad if you may use his lawnmower and trimmer as you will be responsible for providing your own tools. The paper does say you will accomplish the job in a diligent and workman-like manner, but we know you do good work. I will pay you $__ each time you perform the work and present me with an invoice. Don't worry about that too much as I have included a sample invoice that you can print up on your home computer with whatever name you choose to give your company. Note that I did cap the total payments at $599.99 for the summer. This helps both of us as $600.00 is the threshold for filing forms that might draw attention to our little arrangement. Of course your little brother can help you, but his pay comes out of that $__. Now we will each sign two copies of the "Contract" and each keep one copy. Congratulations, Jimmy, you are now a contractor.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I sure miss the old days…

Me to, I grew up mowing yards for people as a kid.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Shoot, we didn't need no stinkin contract.
Before my Dad passed I told him his greatest gift was a work ethic. If I wanted a bike, I mowed lawns, picked up golf balls at a driving range, sold Christmas cards, and made things to sell (matchbox holders, yule logs, letter holders, etc.). Picked up pop bottles 2c deposit (and found a $5 bill)!
So glad I had that experience.

 

[Snobdds]

When a company hires a contractor to preform work on their property, it usually asks to be covered as additional insured on the contractor's liability policy.

Insurance companies know the drill. Just call up your home owners and ask about adding the kid as additional insured.

 

[sunandsand]

Tourists in Florida . . .

I did a four year stint on the local tourism development board here in Volusia County (Daytona Beach area). There are three very different types of tourist destinations in the county, so we have three boards. I was on the one for Southeast Volusia, which included New Smyrna Beach.

We spent about $2.5MM a year received from bed taxes on bringing more tourists to stay overnight to collect more bed taxes (government is a wonderful thing . . . ).

We found that tourism in THIS area resulted in direct property tax savings of between $200 and $300 per home here. We also found that tourism provided a LOT of jobs, unfortunately, those jobs didn't pay very well but they were better than nothing. Lots of local restaurants, some of them very good indeed, lived on tourist dollars.

Our "guests" spent an average of $836 a DAY here, and we are not a high-priced tourist destination. Most of them came from Orlando and Atlanta with a significant number of guests from England and Germany. Note that our area didn't host bike week or NASCAR, it was an entirely different crowd. Average stay for US based visitors was four to five days, overseas was 10 to 14 days.

All in all, it was a net positive, even though sometimes the traffic was a nuisance. That wasn't so much a problem that the tourists brought, the problem was poor infrastructure - two six lane interstates (I-95 and I-4) emptying to a fairly busy four lane arterial with unsynchronized traffic lights, leading to a two lane road over a frequently opened drawbridge with another traffic light at the bottom of the hill, feeding a maze of local, narrow streets. Of course, parking spaces were at a premium as well. The locals simply avoided the area on summer weekends.


Property taxes in Florida - another strange journey indeed. You get a homestead exemption of $50K on your primary residence, if you are over 65 you get a little more, and if you are a veteran, a bit more (not much). Rental properties don't get any of this, so it is built into the rents. $430K primary residence, $1,800/yr, $175K rental property $3,300/yr. Non-homesteaded property can go up 10% a year, and it does, like clockwork.

There's a LOT more to this, a careful reading of the rules can save you a PILE of money.

Then there is the ag exemption. I have five vacant acres off in the woods, nothing on it, and I was paying $2K a year. I put bees on the parcel, the taxes dropped to a whole $55 a year and we get half a dozen jars of honey from the bee guy as well.

Of course, there is no state income tax, which makes a big difference indeed!

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[Tony H]

I am SLOWLY learning that if I am to keep my sanity I need to hire people to help me in life. My goal for the summer is to keep the weeds on my property at bay all summer long Last summer it was a mess, I was too busy with my shop build and the weeds got out of control. All fall I would walk around and end up with a hoodie full of burrs.

I am a school teacher and I plan on hiring one of my responsible enterprising students to weed eat at the property this summer. My question is about liability. I am assuming liability is lessened if you are paying that person to work at your property. Am I correct in this assumption? I do not think he is necessarily going to get hurt, just curious.

School teacher =ALL summer off. Not sure how you need assistance.

 

[MoKelly]

You've got yourself convinced, it's not my place to try to change your mind.

I'm sure you're gonna love the downtown area this Summer. Have fun

Sorry - I missed something. What downtown are you referring?

MoKelly

 

[Fuddy1952]

57 replies.
1) a 5 minute phone call to your insurance agent. Ask about/add umbrella (not for this, everyone should have one anyway.) Ask about the kid working.
2) a kid willing to work...hire him. We have a guy who works here & several neighbors for $10/hr. We show/explain what we want done, he does it. Never a problem.
3) keep up with his hours...close is good enough. Pay cash.
4) The End

 

[California]

Sounds like it'd be cheaper to hire a lawyer to do your gardening over there!!??

Oh G-- no! Hire a lawyer for law work if you need to, but not for non-professional work.

When I owned rentals, I once rented to a law student. Nearly my worst tenant ever. He tried to negotiate EVERYTHING. And he was stupid. He would come home before dawn dead drunk and crash his motorcycle all along the garbage cans. Apparently seduced the wife of a faculty member, the professor woke me up knocking on my door one morning asking If I had seen his wife. Continual drama.

I sold the rentals. Then they were re-sold to an attorney, a bankruptcy specialist who wouldn't pay on the loan he took over. I shamed him by going to his office with his bounced check and demanding he pay me in cash whatever he had in his pockets ... in front of a client who was waiting there. He said he had nothing so I asked his secretary to front him whatever she had in her purse so he could start making a partial payment. . He nearly threw me out bodily. So I filed legal default on him and that got his attention. The second time I filed, he paid off the loan in full to clear the default and end the default notices that were running in the local legal journal.

Never again! You don't want to get in a situation where an attorney could claim injury or injustice or something and make your life miserable.