Hiring Someone to Work on Property - Liability

[plowhog]

The deed is done, nothing "inappropriate" happened, no one got hurt, this kid made some money for his truck note, I still have a job, and my property looks good, all is right with the world.

Glad to hear it all worked out well!

 

[sunandsand]

Guys . . . please chill . . .

You're both right, in varying degrees.

This situation worked out, and everybody won. I'm glad for that, we need more of that nowadays.

There IS risk in situations like this, some of it is obvious and some is not. In a "relaxed" rural area where everybody knows everybody else and people often hire students to do part time work for them, there is likely no issue. In a frantic, crowded city where everyone is suspicious of everyone else and of their motives, well, that's another story.

Liability insurance is a can of worms. I had a guy build a steel building for me, he claimed he was a general contractor and had insurance. (I forgot Reagan's expression - trust but verify.) I came to the jobsite one day and saw nobody wearing hard hats and one guy barefoot. I questioned this, and he calmly told me "Nothing is going to happen, its OK." Must be nice to be able to predict the future.

As it turned out, nothing did happen, nobody got hurt (even though he stiffed a couple of them on their wages), but I was VERY lucky because if anyone had gotten hurt, *I* would have gotten to support them and their squalid brood for the rest of my life or theirs, whichever came first.

So now, here's the deal - no insurance, you aren't working for me. Period. And yes, I will check.

Further, I will check carefully. I have a friend who is an insurance agent (I don't know if I should admit that) and he related a tale of a contractor who presented a certificate of insurance to someone, and that someone called my friend to be added under the coverage. Only problem was the insurance had expired a couple of years ago and the contractor had altered the dates on the certificate, he was uninsured. Trust but verify.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[buckeyefarmer]

People will also operate under old business licenses.
Know a landscaper that would layoff people without paying them for past work.
Knew a telecommunications company that would not reimburse people for travel, or negotiate lower reimbursement than what was promised after they took a trip, seeing how much they could get away with.
Lots of scum out their.

 

[bigwave]

Even if you hire a contractor, have them have their insurance carrier send you a certificate of insurance that has your name listed on it "as your interests appear". That way the carrier is aware that they are working for you and if their insurance is cancelled you will get a notification of the status. Do not accept a "generic" insurance certificate provided by the contractor.
If you hire an individual you can have them sign a subcontractor agreement that specifically states, among other things, that they are providing their own insurance coverage. Not sure that this would even fly after a lawyer gets hold of an injury case and thinks that there's money to be made from suing you.

 

[Tbone07]

The deed is done, nothing "inappropriate" happened, no one got hurt, this kid made some money for his truck note, I still have a job, and my property looks good, all is right with the world.

Thank you for doing this. I'm glad you didn't give in to all of the paranoia and the rest of the BS that was spewed in this thread.

Only reason I had a vehicle in high school was because of all the lawns I mowed, weeds I whacked, and fences I painted.

Use common sense people. Probably not a good idea to have a 16-year old operating a chainsaw where they could lose a limb. Probably not wise to make them operate a tractor or brush-hog on steep terrain. Make sure they've got eye, ear, and foot protection. Talk to their parents. Make sure they're at least somewhat competent with lawncare tools, and let them do the work. Is it worth a call to your insurance company? Sure

I don't want to live in a country where young kids can't work for a few extra bucks, and we're all running around scared of our neighbors.

 

[plowhog]

I'm glad you didn't give in to all of the paranoia and the rest of the BS that was spewed in this thread. ... I don't want to live in a country where young kids can't work for a few extra bucks, and we're all running around scared of our neighbors.

This thread has been interesting.

The OP asked what liabilities might exist in his circumstances. As numerous risks were identified, some more likely than others, a backlash grew about the unfairness of never being able to hire underage kids to mow lawns anymore. Except I don't recall anyone ever advocating that.

Identifying a potential risk, which is what was requested, is a different process from whether you then choose to act on it. You may learn or know of a risk and still reasonably choose to ignore it. I own a number of properties in earthquake zones, which is a known risk, but I deny adding earthquake coverage to my insurance protections. I believe the chance of an earthquake hitting is too small compared to the increase in premium. So far, I'm a hero-- no damaging earthquakes yet!

In this case, the OP felt adding umbrella insurance coverage was good, but discarded concerns of violating his employer's or school's policies. All in all, not a surprising result to address some concerns but leave others behind.

 

[MoKelly]

This thread has been interesting.

The OP asked what liabilities might exist in his circumstances. As numerous risks were identified, some more likely than others, a backlash grew about the unfairness of never being able to hire underage kids to mow lawns anymore. Except I don't recall anyone ever advocating that.

Identifying a potential risk, which is what was requested, is a different process from whether you then choose to act on it. You may learn or know of a risk and still reasonably choose to ignore it. I own a number of properties in earthquake zones, which is a known risk, but I deny adding earthquake coverage to my insurance protections. I believe the chance of an earthquake hitting is too small compared to the increase in premium. So far, I'm a hero-- no damaging earthquakes yet!

In this case, the OP felt adding umbrella insurance coverage was good, but discarded concerns of violating his employer's or school's policies. All in all, not a surprising result to address some concerns but leave others behind.

A very smart post. Thanks.

MoKelly

 

[CobyRupert]

Are there horror stories from hiring a neighborhood kid? You bet. Yet somehow 100’s of thousands of people hire a kid and life goes on.
A lot of these comments seem like “paralysis by analysis”. Paralyzed by “what if’s” and fear.
Sure, steps can be taken to reduce liability, but there’s ALWAYS more steps that can be taken.

 

[Diggin It]

This thread has been interesting.

Indeed.

Check with the school board.

C: They may have a program that would allow it AND cover any liability issues. Some sort of co-op or intern program.

2. A program to help you both, maybe cover your liability issues and give him extra credit.

You won't know unless you ask.

What do we get?

If you have nothing to contribute mind your own business.

Nope! Why would I do that?

Dude, you are ridiculous!

 

[jmc]

I think this thread has run its course.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I think this thread has run its course.

Well, the work got done .... but the horse is still kickin...

 

[buckeyefarmer]

What if you need something built from pallets?

As a kid I did a lot of work for others, mowing, hay, roofing, painting on ladders, tearing down buildings, chainsaws, tractors on hillsides, etc. one was a schoolteacher hired me to tear out a fire damaged room. Suing someone if we got hurt was not even a thought. Just wasn’t done then.
I think we need lawsuit reforms.

 

[Frankenkubota]

lawsuit reforms? i agree.....how?

The politician/lawyers make the laws, interpret that laws and choose how and when to enforce the laws.

they have invented a huge industry based on suing people.

Ever see a lawyer commercial that says.....

You pay nothing unless you win. what do you think that promotes? and that guy with white hair creeps me out.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk but most people's exposure to lawyers and the legal system is a real estate closing, he//, out west they don't even use lawyers!

I'm telling you, get deep between 2 lawyers, theirs and yours, and you soon realize they are both working together to get every penny from you they can. That's the scary part, your own lawyer is working against you.

Nothing will ever change until we get term limits.

 

[mikester]

Sounds like it'd be cheaper to hire a lawyer to do your gardening over there!!??

I would do that but as soon as the neighbour hires one they would be suing each other over dandelion fluff and the definition of "weed". It would take them five years to mow my lawn once and cost $2.2M

 

[Big Blue Florida]

During the summer time some states have ''put a teen to work'' programs.

Check this out in your area. There is constant adult on sight over seeing the work/activity.

This is not just for working in the public parks etc. Your area of required work will be accessed for safety.
Important factor here is the program itself is helping you out as well as teens wanting to work. You pay but there is a city/state employee over seeing the workers.

 

[Hay Dude]

All this brings us back to the concept of the “wussification of America”

 

[buckeyefarmer]

My brother was working one summer for the township, had a running chainsaw dropped on him, no safety equipment in use. He was holding ladder for another guy cutting branches from the ladder. He got some cuts.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

My brother was working one summer for the township, had a running chainsaw dropped on him, no safety equipment in use. He was holding ladder for another guy cutting branches from the ladder. He got some cuts.

Yes... and these types of things are called "accidents". Now, back in the olden days, when an accident happened, we shrugged it off and no harm, no foul. Today, an accident is a lottery ticket; bigger the damage, the bigger the payout... Try being in business today, it's brutal and expensive to cover all the bases.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Why projects cost so much and take so long to get done any more.

 

[two_bit_score]

lawsuit reforms? i agree.....how?

The politician/lawyers make the laws, interpret that laws and choose how and when to enforce the laws.

they have invented a huge industry based on suing people.

Ever see a lawyer commercial that says.....

You pay nothing unless you win. what do you think that promotes? and that guy with white hair creeps me out.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk but most people's exposure to lawyers and the legal system is a real estate closing, he//, out west they don't even use lawyers!

I'm telling you, get deep between 2 lawyers, theirs and yours, and you soon realize they are both working together to get every penny from you they can. That's the scary part, your own lawyer is working against you.

Nothing will ever change until we get term limits.

You had me until the last line but that’s for another day.

You may have heard the story about a town with one starving lawyer. He was in pitiful financial shape until another lawyer moved to town. In a year they were both rich.

Lawyers are like a pair of scissor. They cut up everything that comes between them but only sharpen themselves.