Home Security On my mind again

[AlanB]

John, we all have to make our own decisions, and for all I know you are former SF etc. etc.

But for the "average" person, no matter how good a shot you are "hunting" it bears no similarity to 2am in a dark house, with a stranger there, you are just out of a deep sleep, possibly your kid screaming or crying in the background. I personally like my odds better with a shotgun, and I will cross the bridge with the lawyers when the time comes.

Unless your house is far more substantial then the average house, I would not be confident of where the long gun bullets would end up when I started shooting.

My other experience with room clearing and house to house, is that the average rifle flat out sucks trying to move around in hallways and doorways.

If it works for you, that is great, I just don't think it would work well in the scenario I can visualize myself in.

I personally like the lighter shot first, cause when that first shot goes off, I tend to get REAL focused

 

[texasjohn]

Agreed, I only mentioned long guns to make the point that I am familar with various types of guns and do not shoot wildly. I agree, completely, that inside the house for self defense a shotgun is the better choice, regardless of gauge. One should use only something they are very familar with and can handle quickly and well. In fact, the Axis would still be wandering the Texas Hill Country if I had not been using a 30-30 saddle rifle... short, easy to swing and fast to sight... It was literally about 3 seconds between my first hearing him in the brush and popping the cap with a positive known sight target. You are very right... hunting is different from a deep sleep wake up and response to emergency activity... but any experiences with stress situations assists in handling them...

 

[riptides]

But for the "average" person, no matter how good a shot you are "hunting" it bears no similarity to 2am in a dark house, with a stranger there, you are just out of a deep sleep, possibly your kid screaming or crying in the background. I personally like my odds better with a shotgun, and I will cross the bridge with the lawyers when the time comes.

Unless your house is far more substantial then the average house, I would not be confident of where the long gun bullets would end up when I started shooting.

Good points. At that stage in the game, I don't care what damage I do to my house.

Neighbor might get caught up in it with long bullets, heck, THEY may even return fire depending on what type of relationship one has with them.

 

[AlanB]

And I did not state it clearly, sorry,

I could care less what happens to my house, burn the thing to the ground, they make new ones every day, but if my son is on the other side of that wall,,,,

I do not even want to imagine.

 

[RoyJackson]

While I agree with many of the posters here that a 12 gauge is an extremely intimidating weapon, if you are not familiar with firearms, it may be more intimidating to you. Years ago, The American Rifleman recommended the Ruger 10/22 as more effective for those less familiar with firearms. A .22 semi-auto will be enough to intimidate anyone looking down its barrel, and you and your family will be more likely to practice with it to become proficient with it. Then you can work your way up to a 12 gauge. Meanwhile, if you decide to go the firearm route, go with a .22 semi-auto rifle and .22 semi-auto pistol and you and your family practice until you become familiar and confident with your weapons.

Good point! There's been a lot of BG's taken with .22's!
Also, even a .410 shottie might do the trick.

Another thing...the tactics.
I can tell you right now that if someone comes in the house, I'm going to call 911 (pistol and shottie are already very close), and get behind cover (probably the bed). The cops can do the house clearing. You'd remain on the phone until the cops arrive. The intent is to defend the family, not go looking for the evil doer.
Now, I've got no kids, so it's just the wife and I in bed (well, the dog too). If you have kids, you've got to take that into consideration. I believe the NRA's American Rifleman had the article I'm thinking of...but the intent was everybody would was to move into one room IF an intruder broke in the home.

 

[Kendall69]

Guns, and Sheraman tanks are all well and good, but you must have enough time to react. Unless of course you walk around in your boxers with a side arm.

You need enough warning to react, that I accomplish with a fence vibration alarm ( if the fence rattles like someone is climbing it I will know) the infrared alarm, if anyone crosses the "perimeter" next I can see who or what it is causing the problem.

If the bad guy comes to the door, and you open it - game over.

Why am I so prepared, ( or paranoid ) I was attacked by a bad guy when I opened a door in the good ole days. Now my family, friends, and neighbors all are instructed to NEVER EVER open the door unless you know who it is. If you do not call me and tell me you are coming over you will not get near me - my friends know this.

I have since paid close attention to all the crimes in homes and they all start with " they opened the door" then they did the home invasion, robbery, theft, murder etc.

The three products that I have installed are
http://www.safeguards.com/index.cfm?pg=3&pid=9

http://www.safeguards.com/index.cfm?pg=3&pid=40

http://www.safeguards.com/index.cfm?pg=3&pid=28

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not sure i agree with you.. In fact.. I don't agree with you at all.

That 1 shot 1 kill thing is great for a sniper.. however.. in a self defense situation.. If i shoot someone.. and it does not 'stop' them.. I'm not going to then surrender cause the first shot didn't do it.

I intend to shoot untill the threat has been stopped. be it 1 shot.. or the entire magazine. That counts for my handgun.. or smoothbore.. and everything inbetween.

Respectfully.. even with modern medical science the way it is.. your 'client would be in a black zipperd bag setting there in court. As if the first load did not 'stop' the threat.. then the subsequent loads surely would. If the atacker can take 4+ loads from a 12ga at increasingly closer ranges.. starting from say.. #6 or #8 then progressing to buckshot.... then by the time they are near hand to hand distance.. they will get 5 rounds of .38spl +P if that don't do it.. well.. I guess I'll be dead.. and that 'client' is a realitive of superman. and court will be moot.

Excessive force? yeahright. There are stories in the paper ALL DAY of people defending themselves as best they can. I remember reading on in a handgun mag.. A teenager was home alone... 2 convicts excaped from a local jail.. police were out looking for them. Convicts broke into house went upstairs... kid locked himself in his parents room.. i believe his mother was also there. There was a .22cal rimfire gun in there as well. When the 2 convicts broke the door down, the one in front got 15 rounds to the chest of .22lr Other convict did an impresion of the 'flash' and fled the house. 1st convict died by the time ambulance got there.. I don't recall hearing anything about any 'excessive force' lawsuits.. just a bunch of people patting the kid on the back for has self defense/ defense of others action.

When it comes to self defense/ defense of others / family.. I intend to 'stop' the threat.. however that plays out is up to the attacker, and my carry weapon. best case scenerio is the attacker surrenders and lays down and is arrested.. next best case is he turns and runs. In either case.. no shots are fired..

Besides.. i live in florida.. we still have a few human rights left... and pretty strong self defense laws.. including the new expanded castle doctrine that was LOOOOOOONG overdue.

Soundguy

If I don't think it's a dead shot, I don't pull the trigger.

For me, pulling the trigger inside the house means only one thing... all other options are exhausted and the threat is an immediate deadly risk to my person or family, and must be terminated immediately, not just slowed down.

If I were a laywer (I'm not) defending a client who had violated all the lights, alarms, locks, dogs, verbal commands to leave, etc. and recieved one load of bird shot, then a subsequent heavier load, I would argue that "unnecessary force" was used since the first shot would have clearly incapicated the perp and anything else is just too much. The actual facts would not matter to me, as a defense laywer.... and there is always the possibility of the perp sitting there forlornly looking pathetic with whatever injuries sustained being exaggerated and protesting that it is all a misunderstanding and he's not to blame and is now harmed for life and needs compensation. This argument would be particularly compelling if you managed to get the shot off before any actual physical harm was inflected on you or any family member.

One must think carefully about how aggressively you intend to defend your person and family under extreme and immediate risk situations.... do you intend to wound/slow down the attacker, or to kill? It's not only a moral issue, but there are legal rammifications and probable consequences/outcomes to consider in each case.

Everybody contemplates their belly button and comes to a conclusion of action, inaction and preparation that meets their situation.

Skent, congratulations on all wife and daughters knowing about shotguns... I used a .410 single shot until I was out of college. Often I put more birds in the bag than buddies with automatic 12 ga. shotguns. Certainly, my ammo cost was less.

 

[Soundguy]

Agreed. Our 'plan' at my home is this. I push the wife into the bathroom with the cordless phone or cell phone.. both stay on the bedstand.

Her .38 ladysmith is in it's safe place on her side of the bed.. she totes that intot he batheroom and calls 911. I am in a position of cover due to my side of the bed.. I have my .38spl loaded with +P as a backup and my 12ga smoothbore ( mossberg 512a pump - no plug ) is right on the gun rack above the bed. It's loaded light to heavy, with an extra 5 shells in a quick load sleave on the butstock. In that position we would wait for the cops to get there... My main concern would be wifes safety.. then my own.

We've practiced this and can go from bed to position in about 4 seconds. Probably tripple that if coming out of a sleep.

We had our bedroom built with a solid wood door and deadbolt.. not the standard hollow interior doors. It has jamb reinforcement to 'resist' kicking and we always lock the door.. Not to mention we have 4 dogs that sleep inthe central part of the house. If an intuder gets in.. we should have ample time to get in position and be as ready as possible.. even if power and landline tele is out.

Soundguy

Another thing...the tactics.
I can tell you right now that if someone comes in the house, I'm going to call 911 (pistol and shottie are already very close), and get behind cover (probably the bed). The cops can do the house clearing. You'd remain on the phone until the cops arrive. The intent is to defend the family, not go looking for the evil doer.
Now, I've got no kids, so it's just the wife and I in bed (well, the dog too). If you have kids, you've got to take that into consideration. I believe the NRA's American Rifleman had the article I'm thinking of...but the intent was everybody would was to move into one room IF an intruder broke in the home.

 

[Luremaker]

Agreed. Our 'plan' at my home is this. I push the wife into the bathroom with the cordless phone or cell phone.. both stay on the bedstand.

Her .38 ladysmith is in it's safe place on her side of the bed.. she totes that intot he batheroom and calls 911. I am in a position of cover due to my side of the bed.. I have my .38spl loaded with +P as a backup and my 12ga smoothbore ( mossberg 512a pump - no plug ) is right on the gun rack above the bed. It's loaded light to heavy, with an extra 5 shells in a quick load sleave on the butstock. In that position we would wait for the cops to get there... My main concern would be wifes safety.. then my own.

We've practiced this and can go from bed to position in about 4 seconds. Probably tripple that if coming out of a sleep.

We had our bedroom built with a solid wood door and deadbolt.. not the standard hollow interior doors. It has jamb reinforcement to 'resist' kicking and we always lock the door.. Not to mention we have 4 dogs that sleep inthe central part of the house. If an intuder gets in.. we should have ample time to get in position and be as ready as possible.. even if power and landline tele is out.

Soundguy

I find it unbelievable that many of you guys actually have to make up security plans like this. WOW! I am not sure that I know of anyone around here who actually locks their doors when they go on a weeks vacation.

 

[RoyJackson]

I find it unbelievable that many of you guys actually have to make up security plans like this. WOW! I am not sure that I know of anyone around here who actually locks their doors when they go on a weeks vacation.

Nothing wrong with being prepared...
There has been an upswing in home invasions in the rural areas of southern PA in the last year. Not enough to make it a crime wave though.

We also know how we're going to get out in the event of a fire.