Horror of horrors! My 2310 is hurt!

  
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irvingj

irvingj

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I never thought to check McMaster-Carr! You're right, they're bonded ones.

I did find one other site that specialized in vibration insulator mounts, however, and found similar results to McMaster-Carr: the studs on my mounts (and the holes through the 1/4" steel plates where they attach) are sized for 8 x 1.25 metric. I used 5/16" bolts for my "temporary" fix.

The problem is the size/height of the rubber. The OEM mounts are 1.75 x 1.75 inches, or about 45 mm square, not including the protruding studs. Not available, apparently (for a reason, methinks?) in 8mm, only in 10mm. I was really hoping to avoid having to drill out those mounting holes, which are securely welded to the frame members.

On the bright side (right), I checked Jack's online order status site -- looks like Jack's isn't expecting the OEM mounts from M-F until 6/23. Glad I went with my temporary fix so I can get back to my lawn-that's-looking-like-a-hayfield!
 

flyerdan

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I'm incredibly lazy so what I would have done is leave the existing mounts in place, cut some rubber discs out of an old tire sidewall with a hole saw and use them for the missing bolt thru mounts.
 

AxleHub

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Irving,

I still marvel at the concept that the engine mounts didn't break but that the whole engine had shifted forward. I'm curious how you decide which hardness of bolt or locator pins to use. Will you want a 2 or 3 or a 6 or 8 ? Is there a high density nylon locator pins you could use to cut down on vibration transfer yet keep the engine in place and then have clips or pins to keep it from moving rather than nuts ?
 
  
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irvingj

irvingj

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Actually the mounts did break. Take a look at the 2nd & 3rd pics on my first post: these are rubber cylinders, in effect, with two steel plate/stud assemblies bonded to the tops & bottoms of the rubber cylinders. The idea is that there is no metal-to-metal contact in this type of mount. The steel plates on two of them ripped off at the top and the other two on the bottom, IIRC. Take a look at the pics below: the shiny plate is the one that had let go; the other one is partly shiny and you can see where I had to cut the rest of it off to get at the rubber part.

The mounts were still in there, held by the weight of the engine. However, once one end on each of the mounts had separated, there was really nothing to hold the engine in its proper position & alignment and it slid forward (and to the right a bit) until the flywheel was contacting a bolt on a front plate. Still think I was lucky that the splined HST driveshaft didn't pull all the way out! (See middle pic -- and yes, I did clean out that area and get some oil on those splines.)

As far as the bolts, I just used regular hardware-store 5/16 x 3-1/2" bolts, fender washers, nuts & lock washers. Don't even know what the hardness number is and didn't pay any attention to that, as I'm (at this point) planning to pull those bolts as soon as I get the factory parts.

DSC06704.jpgDSC06632.jpgDSC06703.jpg
 

mrmikey

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Hey Irving, I'm looking at the second pic above, the one with the yoke....it looks awful dry and powdery, time for some moly?....................Mike
 

ray66v

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Actually the mounts did break. Take a look at the 2nd & 3rd pics on my first post: these are rubber cylinders, in effect, with two steel plate/stud assemblies bonded to the tops & bottoms of the rubber cylinders. The idea is that there is no metal-to-metal contact in this type of mount. The steel plates on two of them ripped off at the top and the other two on the bottom, IIRC. Take a look at the pics below: the shiny plate is the one that had let go; the other one is partly shiny and you can see where I had to cut the rest of it off to get at the rubber part.

The mounts were still in there, held by the weight of the engine. However, once one end on each of the mounts had separated, there was really nothing to hold the engine in its proper position & alignment and it slid forward (and to the right a bit) until the flywheel was contacting a bolt on a front plate. Still think I was lucky that the splined HST driveshaft didn't pull all the way out! (See middle pic -- and yes, I did clean out that area and get some oil on those splines.)

As far as the bolts, I just used regular hardware-store 5/16 x 3-1/2" bolts, fender washers, nuts & lock washers. Don't even know what the hardness number is and didn't pay any attention to that, as I'm (at this point) planning to pull those bolts as soon as I get the factory parts.

View attachment 558452View attachment 558453View attachment 558451

Next time, skip the split lock washers, they are a waste of time on smaller bolts.

I'd use lock nuts. Or, double nut it, if I'm really worried about it coming loose.
 
  
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irvingj

irvingj

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Yeah, Ray, I thought about double-nutting it, but the bolts weren't quite long enough. Self-locking nuts would have been best. Mike-- I did clean all the debris out of there while I had it apart and got some oil on those splines. Wanted to take a pic, but forgot and had it all together too quickly. Interesting that there's no way to grease that splined joint on the HST driveshaft.

Good news, however-- just got an email from Jack's and the new mounts are on the way to NH from MD and I should have them next Monday! (They were originally not expected at Jack's from M-F until 6/23.)

I'll take some more pics of that area on the floor beneath all the covers where the HST driveshaft lives when I install the new mounts-- a real good place for all kinds of grass & dust to accumulate. Take a look at the top edge of that middle pic and you see just the tip of the iceberg of the debris that collects along the bottom edge of the radiator. And doesn't come out with the radiator screen. Here's a couple "before" shots of that space. And yes, I did re-position that grommet so it fits in the hole the way it's supposed to.

DSC06628.jpgDSC06629.jpg
 

AxleHub

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Irving,

If the engine mounts actually broke as your later post indicates, that creates a couple more questions. It would seem that means re-welding of the mounts. Wouldn't that require pulling the engine and detaching a number of other components to get clear access?

It would seem cleaning the effected area to be re-welded would mean not just getting it oil, grease, and dirt free. . . but would also require removal of paint to get good metal to weld blending.

That whole process would imply a pretty significant effort to properly secure those mounts to frame. Am I missing something?
 

mrmikey

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..... oil on those splines.
Good show Irv. You'd be better off using moly paste tho, it's a better lubricant where sliding is involved, especially in splines such as that. If you look up the specs for any shaft drive bike as an example, moly paste is recommended as it, according to what I've read, bonds to the sliding surfaces and prevents metal to meal contact.
Glad your other parts are arriving :)..............Mike
 

sd455dan

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Axle as OP said (Actually the mounts did break. Take a look at the 2nd & 3rd pics on my first post: these are rubber cylinders, in effect, with two steel plate/stud assemblies bonded to the tops & bottoms of the rubber cylinders. The idea is that there is no metal-to-metal contact in this type of mount. The steel plates on two of them ripped off at the top and the other two on the bottom, IIRC.

The mounts were still in there, held by the weight of the engine. However, once one end on each of the mounts had separated, there was really nothing to hold the engine in its proper position & alignment and it slid forward (and to the right a bit) until the flywheel was contacting a bolt on a front plate.

The (mount) is the replaceable isolator the root of the problem is more about (how) the mount is constructed

Kind of surprised that there wasn't some type of (captured) isolation mount used
.
I know with some car engines it was possible to buy a standard bonded mounts and you could also buy upgraded mount that fit in the same place and had full vibration damping but if the isolator rubber failed the mount could not separate because it is constructed in such a way that even if the bonding fails it can only move a small amount not completely separate like what happened here.
 
 
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