Hose Extension Leaks

[TerryR]

I bought an offset flail mower and the dealer installed extension hoses to reach the outlets for my FEL hydraulics. But the connectors they installed leak. Here's a photo of the connectors:



They leak at the brass seals as shown by the red arrows. The are very tight - I can't tighten them any more. Anyone have any ideas what's wrong?

I can't even find hose-to-hose connectors in an Internet search. What are they called?

 

[currierej]

That looks like quite a mess, I see female hose to female hose with three adapters in between changing hose size.
Discount hydraulics is active on this site, I'd get with them, you should be able to get one male to male adapter.

 

[Mace Canute]

You'd think something like this would be readily available. This came up when Googling 3/8 in. JICM x 1/2 in. JICM Nipple. Jump size male NPT nipples are also available.

 

[TerryR]

Thanks for the help, guys.

I know nothing about hydraulics. What are the joints on the end of the hoses called? JICM? What does that mean? I need a very basic education here.

 

[triptester]

Here is a link for hydraulic fitting identification.

Hydraulic Fitting Thread Chart | Hydraulics Direct

 

[TerryR]

Thanks Triptester.

 

[Mace Canute]

Thanks for the help, guys.

I know nothing about hydraulics. What are the joints on the end of the hoses called? JICM? What does that mean? I need a very basic education here.

JIC is short for Joint Industry Council and M is short for male.

 

[TerryR]

Thanks Mace,

That helps.

I think I figured out why they used the clumsy arrangement they did. I took one apart and I see the issue. The mower is Italian, and the fitting on the factory hose is Metric 60 degree cone, size M12x1.5 best I can measure. The extension hose is US, with a 1/2" JIC 37 degree Flair, based on the site that Triptester provided the link to. Here's photos:



Fittings to connect them are not common but I think I found what I need on Discount Hydraulic Hose.com - at Hydraulic Fittings - 9067 | JIC 37° Male x Metric Male

They are nearly ten times as expensive as the common JIC to JIC fittings, but still not out of site.

What I don't understand is why the fittings provided by the dealer leak. In fact they leak with no pressure - just lying on the floor. Did they tighten them too tight and ruin the gaskets, or are they just not suited to connect to each other?

 

[triptester]

The fitting on the left may have a tapered female pipe thread which would not have a proper sealing surface for the straight thread O-ring bushing.

 

[/pine]

FWIW...it looks like they are copper crush washers...it might be worth trying some new crush washers before buying different fittings if the leaks are the only issue...

 

[TerryR]

The fitting on the left may have a tapered female pipe thread which would not have a proper sealing surface for the straight thread O-ring bushing.

Triptester,

I took it apart to see what I could find. I can't see that its a tapered thread, but it does have a chamfered seat which may not seal well with the copper washer. See photo:



Also, the last fitting - right on this photo, has a very small hole. Is that normal, or is this an orifice designed to reduce the speed of movement of the attached arm?

 

[/pine]

FWIW...the F/F coupling (laying on the pencil) "appears" to be an SAE/ORB female fitting...it's hard to tell but SAE fittings are straight threads...Agree whatever it is...it's not a typical application for a copper crush washer seal...

BTW...yes the other fitting is a restricted orifice...

 

[oldnslo]

Terry
I would suggest identifying the thread type on the part of the fitting that is leaking. This could be BSPP or Metric. Both styles use several different sealing methods. There is also a Metric version of O-ring boss that would use an O-ring vs crush washer.

 

[TerryR]

The smaller M-M fitting, on the right, has the same threads on both ends. Metric M12x1.5 I think. I think I need to keep it because of the restricted orifice. The engine has to operate at PTO speed to run the mower, so that makes the action these hoses control more jumpy than really desired.

A 1/2" JIC male to Metric M12X1.5 female would be just the thing to get rid of the leaking joint but I can't find a 1/2" JIC male to a Metric female that small.

I'm pretty sure the female thread in the reducer in the middle is M12x1.5, since it readily takes either end of the M-M fitting. But I don't know how to figure out what the male thread on it is. If I could work that out I can probably get a fitting like the larger one in the photo that would actually seal.

The dealer seems to be closed over Christmas week but maybe I can learn more from them next week.

 

[triptester]

I would first try replacing the crush washer with an O-ring.

 

[Discount Hydraulic Hose]

The smaller M-M fitting, on the right, has the same threads on both ends. Metric M12x1.5 I think. I think I need to keep it because of the restricted orifice. The engine has to operate at PTO speed to run the mower, so that makes the action these hoses control more jumpy than really desired.

A 1/2" JIC male to Metric M12X1.5 female would be just the thing to get rid of the leaking joint but I can't find a 1/2" JIC male to a Metric female that small.

I'm pretty sure the female thread in the reducer in the middle is M12x1.5, since it readily takes either end of the M-M fitting. But I don't know how to figure out what the male thread on it is. If I could work that out I can probably get a fitting like the larger one in the photo that would actually seal.

The dealer seems to be closed over Christmas week but maybe I can learn more from them next week.

Hey Terry - give me a call if you'd like some assistance - I'd be glad to try and help. I'm at 267-579-0142, ext 204. Thanks!

 

[TerryR]

Thanks Marc, I will.

Terry

 

[Discount Hydraulic Hose]

The smaller M-M fitting, on the right, has the same threads on both ends. Metric M12x1.5 I think. I think I need to keep it because of the restricted orifice. The engine has to operate at PTO speed to run the mower, so that makes the action these hoses control more jumpy than really desired.

A 1/2" JIC male to Metric M12X1.5 female would be just the thing to get rid of the leaking joint but I can't find a 1/2" JIC male to a Metric female that small.

I'm pretty sure the female thread in the reducer in the middle is M12x1.5, since it readily takes either end of the M-M fitting. But I don't know how to figure out what the male thread on it is. If I could work that out I can probably get a fitting like the larger one in the photo that would actually seal.

The dealer seems to be closed over Christmas week but maybe I can learn more from them next week.

In case anyone else is following or having a similar issue - we have decided to swap out the copper washer for Buna Bonded Seals as the Metric / BSPP threads are straight thread, they need the O-Ring to seal, so I believe that the bonded seal will fix this right up. TerryR please keep us informed so we can ensure the proper resolution.

 

[bazman]

I found that part, but in stainless steel? SS-2403-08-06 dunno if that works or not

That JIC nipple I mean

 

[TerryR]

Thanks, bazman, but I don't need JIC to JIC.

The factory hose is not JIC but a metric style. And, as noted above the fitting supplied for that includes a restrictive orifice which I think is necessary, so I need to keep that. The solution seems to be new seals between the supplied fittings. The dealer has supplied a set but they seem small. I'm waiting to see the size that Marc of Discount Hydraulics is providing, but there is some sort of screw up on shipping them so that's delayed. They are supposed to ship today so I'll see soon. There's nothing to mow at the moment anyway so there's no rush other than just wanting to get the issue resolved.