How are your investments doing?

[CloverKnollFarms]

We're 6x that here in NH - no state income tax but high property taxes and cost of living..

Moving forward in retirement we are planning to build a new property in KY. There we plan to use the farm tax deduction to have the taxes assessed not on value of the land, but use value. Significantly reducing the already low property tax rate. This should help finances in retirement a bit as well.

 

[ultrarunner]

It’s a lifesaver if you can get it.

My brother’s farm doesn’t qualify even with +/- 600k in sales because 65 acres isn’t considered a farm for property tax requirements on his county.

I think he is at 30k property tax and it’s treated as residential single family home with outbuildings and land.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

It’s a lifesaver if you can get it.

My brother’s farm doesn’t qualify even with +/- 600k in sales because 65 acres isn’t considered a farm for property tax requirements on his county.

I think he is at 30k property tax and it’s treated as residential single family home with outbuildings and land.

It's only 10 acres in KY

 

[ponytug]

It’s a lifesaver if you can get it.

My brother’s farm doesn’t qualify even with +/- 600k in sales because 65 acres isn’t considered a farm for property tax requirements…

I think he is at 30k property tax and it’s treated as residential single family home with outbuildings and land.

OTOH, he has $600k in sales to offset the tax.

We could plant olives here to get that level of sales, but that would be 10-15 years from now, plus the cost of the labor to hand pick them. Which is why we haven't gone down that path.

To your earlier post: I realize being a "fix it up and rent" landlord worked really well in the past for some folks, but I do not see it penciling out these days in most locales. One of my brother's has done it for years as a way of diversifying and keeping himself busy. As he has gotten older, I think that the level of effort is starting to catch up with him and I expect him to sell the apartments fairly soon. Locally, I was speaking with a friend who owns a small apartment complex, who got deep into the weeds of seismic retrofitting the building before realizing that the fiscally sensible thing to do was to sell the complex for land value and let someone build a new, larger and higher density complex in its place. Times change.

@CloverKnollFarms they bumped up the requirement here in 2007, because something on the order of 80% of the state's property tax exemption for small ag was adjacent to the big cities around here in our county and @ultrarunner's. (which was a bit of a "Duh" moment, as that's where the greatest non-ag pressure for other uses are on the land, but that is what the legislature wanted. ("Williamson Act") )

All the best,

Peter

 

[DarkBlack]

That amount would not cover my monthly property taxes and insurance. I wish we could live on that.

You must have quite the impressive multi-million $ home if $30k a year wouldn’t cover property taxes and insurance. I looked up the average tax rate for Washington , and it’s a heck of a lot lower than many other states, less than 1/2 of my state’s rate (NH)

https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/property-taxes-by-state

$30k/ year would be the tax on a $3.5 million property, according to the article. Double that bill for New Hampshire. New Jersey… crazy expensive

 

[ultrarunner]

Insurance in the West has dramatically increased for many post the fires… tract homes of modest size not unusual to have 10k home owners…

My 6800 WA tax bill is now 20k for 1976 build showing its age… Thurston County.

I realize there are places with higher property tax but how high is too high?

My California property tax comes with 28 mostly voter approved special assessments for things like sports arena expansion for the Oakland Raiders who left town but the bonds for the nearly empty stadium continue… as one example.

 

[CH4Ohio]

My California property tax comes with 28 mostly voter approved special assessments for things like sports arena expansion for the Oakland Raiders who left town but the bonds for the nearly empty stadium continue… as one example.

It's scary what happens when people with no skin in the game get to vote on tax increases for others. Used to be most everyone was pulling their weight and paying taxes and aspired to make more and pay even more taxes. Now those that don't work and don't have to pay property taxes and school taxes, etc. are a significant part of the electorate. We're reaching a dangerous tipping point.

 

[ultrarunner]

It's scary what happens when people with no skin in the game get to vote on tax increases for others. Used to be most everyone was pulling their weight and paying taxes and aspired to make more and pay even more taxes. Now those that don't work and don't have to pay property taxes and school taxes, etc. are a significant part of the electorate. We're reaching a dangerous tipping point.

Tax the other guy and when it comes to renters in areas with rent control even cost of living from cpi are not a pass through… only a fraction may be allowed.

My city was home to several major league teams with winning histories… they have all left but bond measures remain with property owners on the hook… so little direct affect unless property tax payer.

I’m invested in property but values continue to drop for a number of reasons such as crime which has a two fold effect because even profitable businesses pull up stakes and abandon holdings for the promise of greener pastures.

 

[jyoutz]

Insurance in the West has dramatically increased for many post the fires… tract homes of modest size not unusual to have 10k home owners…

My 6800 WA tax bill is now 20k for 1976 build showing its age… Thurston County.

I realize there are places with higher property tax but how high is too high?

My California property tax comes with 28 mostly voter approved special assessments for things like sports arena expansion for the Oakland Raiders who left town but the bonds for the nearly empty stadium continue… as one example.

I think you mean west coast. We aren’t seeing dramatic insurance rate increases like you describe in the interior mountain west areas.

 

[ultrarunner]

I think you mean west coast. We aren’t seeing dramatic insurance rate increases like you describe in the interior mountain west areas.

California has been hit hard by both increases and providers leaving.

Oregon up 30 to 40%

Washington State not nearly as bad with 50% increase over the last 6 years.

WASHINGTON - Home insurance rates in Washington have surged, with a 19.5% increase over the past year, according to LendingTree's 2025 State of Home Insurance Report. This marks the third largest increase nationwide. Over the past six years, Washington homeowners have faced a cumulative 51% rise in rates

 

[jyoutz]

California has been hit hard by both increases and providers leaving.

Oregon up 30 to 40%

Washington State not nearly as bad with 50% increase over the last 6 years.

WASHINGTON - Home insurance rates in Washington have surged, with a 19.5% increase over the past year, according to LendingTree's 2025 State of Home Insurance Report. This marks the third largest increase nationwide. Over the past six years, Washington homeowners have faced a cumulative 51% rise in rates

Yep. West coast, but not the interior west.

 

[mark in portugal]

I had the insurance for my floating rental properties canceled completely because I don't live in that country (Netherlands) anymore.
There is only 1 underwriter for the whole country now, and they set the rules.
So what is a non-resident home owner supposed to do?
No answer.
I have a half policy at full price with a specialty insurer. Very few things are covered.

 

[ultrarunner]

I know pacific or west coast time include California, Oregon, Washington and parts of Arizona, Nevada and Idaho…

Don’t know if insurance rates in the last 3 have also had large premium increases.

 

[DarkBlack]

In my previous post I forgot to factor that some places like the west coast pay a higher insurance / property tax ratio. For me in NH property taxes are almost 8x basic insurance premiums

 

[jyoutz]

I know pacific or west coast time include California, Oregon, Washington and parts of Arizona, Nevada and Idaho…

Don’t know if insurance rates in the last 3 have also had large premium increases.

Arizona is on mountain time, not Pacific. But since they don’t use DST they are the same as PDT in the summer.

 

[Oaktree]

We're 6x that here in NH - no state income tax but high property taxes and cost of living..

Actually, *total* tax burden in N.H. is one of the lowest in the country. Actual ranking varies by source, but we're consistently in the lowest 20% of states. Having neither a sales nor income tax means the money has to come from somewhere else, in this case property tax.

#49 here
#45 here
#48 here

We do have one of the highest electric rates in the country though.

 

[Torvy]

It's only 10 acres in KY

Here, too. We live on about $30k a year. Biggest expense is taxes.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Here, too. We live on about $30k a year. Biggest expense is taxes.

We live well on the same. After reading some things here I consider myself fortunate

 

[ultrarunner]

I had the insurance for my floating rental properties canceled completely because I don't live in that country (Netherlands) anymore.
There is only 1 underwriter for the whole country now, and they set the rules.
So what is a non-resident home owner supposed to do?
No answer.
I have a half policy at full price with a specialty insurer. Very few things are covered.

There was a time when cancelling property insurance once the mortgage was paid off…

Maybe like getting reduced coverage when car is old and paid off?

One large apartment group has become self insured for casualty loss as a business decision keeping high deductible liability…

 

[ponytug]

@ultrarunner You have my sympathies. I have to admit that given the trends where you have property, if it were me, I'd be liquidating the real estate. I just don't see the locale improving the business environment, nor the taxation, nor the insurance rates, nor the crime, but it is your home turf and know it far better than me.

All the best, Peter