How does horsepower affect performance?

HGM · Dec 16, 2005

Hands down it would be #1

#2 is a gas burner and would either stall or spin the tires when you tried to use the power if it came in at that RPM.... I prefer the idea of a strong lumbering diesel for my tractor.

BTW, if #2 had those numbers, you could never use the TQ and HP. The gearing would be terrible...

I think I understand your point, just cannot say that you can make your decision on HP alone. If your talking tractors, HP is the common rating. TQ and gearing go with it in resonable proportions. Most folks only know HP, the rest is gibberish.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How about this one......

Would you rather a horse or elephant to pull your stuck truck out of the mud? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MMM · Dec 16, 2005

Leaving aside the technical jargon.... and the squirrels, the higher hp tractor can pull more ballast, to do more work. The equal weight, wheel spin comparison is moot point as I imagine the 40h+p weighs quite a bit more than the 20+hp unit. The NH hydro fact is quite interesting, and informative, (good post Tim).

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 16, 2005

Leaving aside the technical jargon.... and the squirrels 

But I like the squirrels .... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

IslandTractor · Dec 17, 2005

Bigger, more powerful tractors certainly do some things faster but the bigger is better philosophy has its limits and downside too.

One factor the "more horsepower" junkies don't seem to consider is that the higher HP engine will always consume more fuel than the lower horsepower unit even when putting out the same HP. Operating costs and fuel consumption will be higher. So while it is a nice idea to have the reserve HP, you pay for that reserve all the time.

Also, diesels in particular also like to be run at medium to full load, if they are oversized for the usual job (say mowing) then you're also not treating your engine as it should be for optimal life.

MMM · Dec 17, 2005

I don't consider myself a hp junkie, but a realist. Note that I have a baby tractor and it has it's niche. If implement is matched to higher hp tractor, the fuel use and engine load is moot.(except maybe pto genset, spray rig, log splitter) due to more ground being covered under load. Reserve hp isn't sensible to me because I'd rather use it right now if I've got it.

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 17, 2005

One factor the "more horsepower" junkies don't seem to consider is that the higher HP engine will always consume more fuel than the lower horsepower unit even when putting out the same HP. 

Island:

A) When you were typing this, was I one of the posters you had in mind as being a "horsepower junkie"?

B) If "yes", do you believe that I don't realize that a smaller engine will consume less fuel than a larger one, assuming they are both putting out equal amounts of power?

C) Would you agree that "name-calling" has no place in an intellectual discussion? I have been called an "amsoil lover" for using synthetics. If A = "Yes", then I have now been labeled a "horsepower junkie" for making what I consider to be carefully considered remarks on this subject.

Let's all try to leave the mud-slinging out of these discussions. The "Golden Rule" seems to be falling out of fashion.

BobReeves · Dec 17, 2005

Horsepower junkie's unite /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Went from borrowing the neighbors MF 35 to a Ford 3000, about 10 more HP and I LIKE IT

IslandTractor · Dec 17, 2005

CT,

I meant no harm. I thought horsepower junkies was just a kinda cute term to characterize those who seem to always argue for more Hp. I was not referring to you in particular as several people have put forth the more is better argument in this thread and others.

I assume people do understand the fuel consumption issue but wonder why it rarely comes up in these discussions. I think it's because we all tend to get excited by our tractors ultimate capabilities and often lose site of the more mundane things we do every time we use the machines. Again, I would make the same comment about owning a 3/4 ton pickup if it spends most of the time commuting and only once a year pulls anything close to it's towing capacity. What a waste of fuel. Why don't we size tractors for what is 99% of what they do and then worry about how to accomplish the 1% jobs separately. There seem to be a lot of people who fear a lack of power in tractors. That seems silly as almost all the tractors we use today are more capable than the average machines used just 20-30 years ago on most farms across the country even though most of us (on TBN) seem to use them on personal homesites and not primarily commercially. (CT I know you use yours in business but you are in a minority).

So, I really did not mean to be mud slinging at all and I apologize if it seemed that way. But I do continue to think that horsepower is overrated by many folks on this forum and that there is a real downside to getting a tractor that is bigger than what you really need.

IslandTractor · Dec 17, 2005

( If implement is matched to higher hp tractor, the fuel use and engine load is moot.(except maybe pto genset, spray rig, log splitter) due to more ground being covered under load. )

I agree with your point. However, if you are mowing an acre does that really justify a 15ft bat wing just so you have matched the implement to a high powered tractor. I understand what you are saying but I guess it turns the argument into "proper sizing" of implements for acreage etc.

cisco · Dec 17, 2005

For just pulling (box blade) purposes, there's a much wider range of serviceable tractors than there is for pto powered uses. Sure, a more powerful tractor will be able to move along quicker than a less powerful one that needs to select a lower gear range to match task and torque, given same tire type (e.g. R-4), but sooner or later the relative tires widths and weights of the tractors on those treads will make a task-critical difference, i.e., the less powerful tractor flat out just can't do it, regardless of speed. Much more quickly, in my experience, will the difference in pto show up. Indeed, I've never been in danger of stalling the diesel on my L3410, but I sure have run out of traction despite 4WD, when pulling a fully loaded 6' box blade. Pulling a 6' rotary cutter through thick brush is another matter - I can lug the diesel easily, while my neighbor with a Deere of about 10 more pto hp moves along with that same brush cutter, experiencing only minor fluctuations in diesel rpm when the cutter gets into especially dense stuff.
So, the difference in size/power between those tractors is far more evident with a brush cutter than it is with a box blade.