How does one decide right vs wrong?

[wroughtn_harv]

Pete it's still civil!

I have to admit I can't help but respect a man who names his tractor a female name. I wouldn't think of giving a hard working piece of equipment a male name. Nothing against the guys you understand. But guys don't look good working./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I once had a couple of women want to know why I called my truck a "she". I looked out at her filling up at the pump and turned to the ladies. "You ever seen a butt like that on a boy?"

End of discussion.

 

[BigDave]

<font color=blue> I will not dance with the "devil" nor argue with him </font color=blue>

TresCrows, I know you've decided to end your part in this discussion, but do you really think Harv is the devil? I understand that dealing with someone who doesn't share your beliefs can be frustrating to you, but Harv doesn't understand your beliefs either. Do you really think you should to judgement on Harv; shouldn't you leave that to God. Afterall, we really do not understand the will of God, it is possible that Harv could be God's agent testing you rather than the devil's agent enchanting you. I've had people over the year's test my beliefs and yes some of them shared your beliefs, but I embrassed their spirit and grew from the experience. Yes, my beliefs have changed over time, but I believe they changed for the better. Are they closer to the absolute truth? Only God knows.

 

[TresCrows]

Ok, Ok, it is not so easy to quit. The conversation is still civil but do you guys really think this is a "for fun discussion"? Maybe we need a Philosophybynet.com site were I/we can take my/our gloves off because this is not the place here at what should be a friendly tractor focused site.
I am often amazed that in a mostly Christian country the complete and near total misunderstanding of Christianity--questions such as why God allows evil if he is perfect are examples--as one individual pointed out---BibleSchool 101 has the answer. Christians themselves have a persecution complex and fully expect to once again be fed to the lions by the disbelievers. The hateful anti-Christian rhetoric that is currently PC does nothing to asuage their fears.
I am a trained scientist, a Geologist no less, I could argue with the Creation (non)science as vehemontly as I could the question do absolutes exist. Unfortuantely, to remain civil in such an argument based so deeply on complex issues/emotions/beleif systems would be impossible and in fact many Christian churches including Catholic church teach that to argue such things can be held as a black mark agaisnt one's self--why--because ignorance is an excuse when it comes to faith and if by exposing an individual to the truth and they turn it down--as I said--dismissive--then I possibly endanger their soul. Is the individual someone asked if I thought he was the "devil" (a simplistic term)--the answer is no--but in the abscence of faith in God--the abscence of God--then one is left only to man or Darkness for inspiration. Does God speak to disbelievers-yes---do they listen---I cannot answer--but a hardened heart --turned to stone -- leaves me to wonder then who exactly might be their inspiration.
Is this still civil ?Christianity is a faith of zealots, those who believe in Jesus Christ as the only way, that is what I believe completely. As to the bible, unlike some, do not believe the bible is 100% word for word accurately an accounting of actual events--there was no Great Flood--no Noahs boat animals two by two--but the Bible is 100 percent God's inspired word, a guide to live by, to have faith in and to understand humankind and their relation to God and thereby in Service to God obtain salavation.
This way to complicated for a tractor forum so this time--I really mean it--I am going back to talking tractors and maybe y'all should too. In any case I will not bother y'all on this subject again. J

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Morning Pitbull,

Here in norte tejas this morning it looks like we're gonna have a "floater" first thing this morning. The radar on the tv news looks like there's a Monarch butterfly convention there in the studio and about half of them found the computer screen intriguing.

<font color=blue>You seemed to have ignored the discussion of gravity being absolute,</font color=blue>

I'm guilty as charged. It is judgemental of me and maybe a little childish. But the topic of discussion at hand in good and evil and the absolutes involved.

I can't really rationalize gravity as being absolutely evil unless of course I had jumped out of plane and found the parachute malfunctioning. Then I'm sure there would be not only a discussion about this gravity being totally evil but every gravity everywhere and their mothers too. If I had jumped from a high enough height I might even have time to go back to gravity grandmothers and great grandmothers and just what they did and why also.

But then that would confirm my position that evil is all about perspective, right?

 

[wroughtn_harv]

<font color=blue>Is the individual someone asked if I thought he was the "devil" (a simplistic term)--the answer is no--but in the abscence of faith in God--the abscence of God--then one is left only to man or Darkness for inspiration. Does God speak to disbelievers-yes---do they listen---I cannot answer--but a hardened heart --turned to stone -- leaves me to wonder then who exactly might be their inspiration.</font color=blue>

Wow. This sounds a lot like what got this discussion going. The assumption someone who believes in a god has a higher moral standard than one that doesn't.

I asked for examples. Then I questioned them.

The conversation is still civil and will remain so.

I know this. You see I'm the only heathern in the discussion and therefore the only one who can be uncivil. I've commited myself to being civil. So it's a done deal.

I understand the not questioning religion or even politics. To answer the question one has to consider it. Considering it can sabotage one's faith.

The perfect example is your position on the flood. Your scientific training made you question the validity of the story of the flood. When it came to blind faith versus rational thought you picked a path that makes you look like a heretic in the eyes of those who haven't had the benefit of your life experience.

Is it so hard for you especially to understand my questioning the premise of a diety like the one in the Bible based upon my life experience? It really is not unlike your own. Just like you comparing the obvious with blind faith and choosing logic about the flood I have chosen that all religion is false based again, like you, on logic and study versus blind faith.

When studying for the ministry I used to look at the world around me and be in total awe at the beauty of what I thought God had created. Of course like a child I thought I was the center of the universe and so of course God had made all of this as my reward for loving Him.

Now of course I'm still in awe, that'll never change. I'm just an awe full kind of guy./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But now I see a rose, we only have about twenty, space is of a premium. I don't see something a god has made. I see something that is beautiful all unto it's self. It isn't part of a master plan nor is it a brush stroke by a painter designing this beautiful world. It's an entity that is beautiful for only it's own reasons.

Now I am a lucky puppy. I can see the rose and most of it's colors. I have heard there are colors people can't see which doesn't surprise me at all. I know people. They don't see much without training to begin with./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Where I'm lucky is I not only get to see the rose but I get to see the birds in their beauty and not as something that is part of my being here. They'd be here and just as beautiful even if I nor anyone like me wasn't. They're beautiful for their own reasons and that's okay.

Of course accepting that it's all not about me puts me into your category of being a heretic for not accepting the Bible as written.

 

[Boondox]

<font color=blue>then one is left only to man or Darkness for inspiration</font color=blue>

Why not seek inspiration from Man and goodness..?

Pete

 

[PitbullMidwest]

<font color=blue>When studying for the ministry I used to look at the world around me and be in total awe at the beauty of what I thought God had created... But now I see a rose, we only have about twenty, space is of a premium. I don't see something a god has made</font color=blue>

Didn't Paul address this in Romans 1:16-22?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>questions such as why God allows evil</font color=blue>

Why does god allow evil? I never read the bible. I don't understand why god would let a handfull of terrorists slaughter 3000 people. I'm not trying to poke at a sore, I really am ignorant about the bible.

 

[drmorris]

I have not read all the posts here and do not wish to. I believe in God and that all living things have souls/spirits. These are the only absolutes anywhere in the universes we know of. I believe the answer to your question is as follows. The things we do that create the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of things in the physical and spiritual worlds are good and the things we do that create more harm to the physical and spiritual worlds (if you will) are considered bad. THese are not absolutes. One thing is for sure--what is ture for you is true for you. What is true for someone else is true for someone else. Beings/people change ehtics and morals are subjective but people do things because they think it helps ensure thier survival and that is the only reason they do anything--ever. A better question in my opinion is- What is survival? I believe what I want, you believe what you want. Other people/beings matter to me and I am and have been accused of being too good (whatever that means). But as I said other people matter to me. The "Golden Rule" helps. Don't do anything to someone else that you could not easily experience yourself--and Make things and Life as easy as possible for you and others to experience. All words from someone who considers himself to be wise and happy and moral and ethical. I only hope this helps someone live a happier and more productive life and that they help others do the same.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>Why does god allow evil? </font color=blue>

I guess this must be too juvenile of a question to bother with answering, or maybe this thread is finally coming to a long overdue demise.