Tractor Sizing How much HP do I really need?

[quotejso]

the L2501 is large displacement so I would guesstimate it tis making large torque. Hp is fun but torque gets the job done.

 

[Roger66]

I did some tests today and I measured my driveway and at it's steepest point it's 11.4 degrees, most of it is 10 degrees. In high gear even with a running start the tractor completely stalls out and dies on this hill with the pedal floored. It will go up the hill in mid range empty, but it's working and won't go up the hill in mid range with a trailer full of firewood. I called my dealer and he hopped on another brand new one and it could not climb his loading dock in high gear so other new 1526 tractors seem to behave similar, indicating mine might be "normal". One good thing I noticed is that I can climb the hill in high range if I back way off the hydro pedal meaning I don't need to stop and change ranges, just back off on the pedal input. The result is the same however, this engine is too weak for this size tractor. I can certainly manage with 25 HP, but it's not enough and I need to learn how to live within the tractor's limitations. So much for "Push More. Pull More. Lift More."

 

[IslandTractor]

I did some tests today and I measured my driveway and at it's steepest point it's 11.4 degrees, most of it is 10 degrees. In high gear even with a running start the tractor completely stalls out and dies on this hill with the pedal floored. It will go up the hill in mid range empty, but it's working and won't go up the hill in mid range with a trailer full of firewood. I called my dealer and he hopped on another brand new one and it could not climb his loading dock in high gear so other new 1526 tractors seem to behave similar, indicating mine might be "normal". One good thing I noticed is that I can climb the hill in high range if I back way off the hydro pedal meaning I don't need to stop and change ranges, just back off on the pedal input. The result is the same however, this engine is too weak for this size tractor. I can certainly manage with 25 HP, but it's not enough and I need to learn how to live within the tractor's limitations. So much for "Push More. Pull More. Lift More."

Sounds like you are a bit unfamiliar with how HST works. You would never "mash" the pedal to the floor to get more power when the tractor slows going up a hill. You'll get more power with a middle setting. You will go faster on flat when you mash the pedal but when there is resistance you need to back off not push further. Different than gas.

 

[ericm979]

The pedal should not be floored for this. It's not a gas pedal. The farther you push the pedal the higher the gear ratio. What you're doing when you do that is exactly like putting a car in high gear and trying to drive up a hill. It's not the car's fault if it can't make it, it's operator error. The fact that it works when you back off the pedal shows that it's working as designed. It is normal for HSTs

 

[Roger66]

The pedal should not be floored for this. It's not a gas pedal. The farther you push the pedal the higher the gear ratio. What you're doing when you do that is exactly like putting a car in high gear and trying to drive up a hill. It's not the car's fault if it can't make it, it's operator error. The fact that it works when you back off the pedal shows that it's working as designed. It is normal for HSTs

I'm not sure what you drive, but If your car empty could not climb a mountain in high gear and maintain highway speed and actually stalled completely out, I think you'd be really unhappy with your car, I know I would. I know my pickup has no problem holding 70+ MPH in cruse control all day long in overdrive with a large RV in tow up and down the smokey mountains of VA on my way down to the Bristol NASCAR race. I expect this to manage 10ish MPH up a 11 degree driveway. Clearly my expectations seem to be unrealistic in the tractor world. In the past when the truck got stuck in the snow, I'd pull it out with my Jeep easily. I thought the tractor would have more pulling power given the low gear ratio & larger tires, but with the lack of power my Jeep can easily out pull this tractor. I'll just have to use the Jeep or the truck when I have real work to do, Very disappointing.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm not sure what you drive, but If your car empty could not climb a mountain in high gear and maintain highway speed and actually stalled completely out, I think you'd be really unhappy with your car, I know I would. I know my pickup has no problem holding 70+ MPH in cruse control all day long in overdrive with a large RV in tow up and down the smokey mountains of VA on my way down to the Bristol NASCAR race. I expect this to manage 10ish MPH up a 11 degree driveway. Clearly my expectations seem to be unrealistic in the tractor world. In the past when the truck got stuck in the snow, I'd pull it out with my Jeep easily. I thought the tractor would have more pulling power given the low gear ratio & larger tires, but with the lack of power my Jeep can easily out pull this tractor. I'll just have to use the Jeep or the truck when I have real work to do, Very disappointing.

I think you are missing the point(s). The HST transmission is not like a car transmission. Tractors are not cars. They are not designed for high speed travel on roads. And, you are comparing a 4000lb ?200+hp Jeep 4wd to a 25hp small frame tractor???? Maybe you should have done some homework before making a purchase.

 

[sd455dan]

I'm not sure what you drive, but If your car empty could not climb a mountain in high gear and maintain highway speed and actually stalled completely out, I think you'd be really unhappy with your car, I know I would. I know my pickup has no problem holding 70+ MPH in cruse control all day long in overdrive with a large RV in tow up and down the smokey mountains of VA on my way down to the Bristol NASCAR race. I expect this to manage 10ish MPH up a 11 degree driveway. Clearly my expectations seem to be unrealistic in the tractor world. In the past when the truck got stuck in the snow, I'd pull it out with my Jeep easily. I thought the tractor would have more pulling power given the low gear ratio & larger tires, but with the lack of power my Jeep can easily out pull this tractor. I'll just have to use the Jeep or the truck when I have real work to do, Very disappointing.

Do they offer that tractor in a manual trans version?

I agree with the other posters that Hydrostatics work just the opposite of a gas pedal.
But do agree with you that flooring it probably shouldn't kill the engine though... At least when I had my hydro skid steer (it would just bog flooring it- but not die)

To increase torque you reduce the pedal, to the point that it maintains RPMs in the range best matched to the area yo are working. Unfortunately you may need to operate it in the next lower range, Can't hurt to try.
In some cases and for some people a manual trans may be a better fit. They do get more of the engines power to the ground and also don't need to be run at a higher throttle position for some types of work.

One other thought would be to see if the tractor can be dynoed-just to be sure, that it is in fact making it's advertised power.

Hope this works out so that you will be able to enjoy your tractor

 

[IslandTractor]

Put just about any HST tractor up against a big tree and floor it in high range. It will stall. In low range it might spin its wheels but in high range it will stall.

 

[sd455dan]

Put just about any HST tractor up against a big tree and floor it in high range. It will stall. In low range it might spin its wheels but in high range it will stall.

Sorry Island, never tried that but you are right- If I had run it up against an immovable object I am sure it would have spun or killed it.
I was just thinking of pushing snow when I first got it and how it would keep running but dog if to much forward hand control ( dual steering levers)was being input while moving.
Although I do seem to remember a Kioti? thread where the relief pressure was set to low and the tractor would just bog down and not kill the engine or spin the tires IIRC?

 

[IslandTractor]

Sorry Island, never tried that but you are right- If I had run it up against an immovable object I am sure it would have spun or killed it.
I was just thinking of pushing snow when I first got it and how it would keep running but dog if to much forward hand control ( dual steering levers)was being input while moving.
Although I do seem to remember a Kioti? thread where the relief pressure was set to low and the tractor would just bog down and not kill the engine or spin the tires IIRC?

I stall my Kioti occasionally when digging into a pile of dirt or even bushhogging if I'm not at PTO speed and moving too fast. Diesels certainly have more grunt than gas but they will stall. Nice thing about HST is that you have sufficient warning in the change of engine sound that releasing the pedal pressure usually allows the engine to spool back up again without a stall.