How to back up a pivoting axle trailer

   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #41  
Lineman - when you loose control of a wagon - that's where it ALWAYS wants to go. Around a corner........
Absolutely, I had some dealings with a corn wagon that an old man owned that I worked for as a kid, I could do decent backing it under a barn by swinging wide and getting lined up straight with a tractor but it wasn't easy and I could forget backing it around a corner and getting it to go where I wanted it to go.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #42  
I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621
Independent rear brakes are your steering help when trying to back up a wagon. Learned at 12 years old working on a vegetable farm backing them multiple times daily up To a loading dock with other tractor/wagons alongsid. A knob (suicide knob) bolted onto the steer wheel helps immensely too. So unlock them rear whee brakes and give it a try.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #43  
Easiest method is to use a pair of horses to pull the wagon. They should be trained to be able to side-step on command. You can swing the hitch pole from side to side somewhat more easily with horses than with a tractor.

For real excitement try backing a wagon that doesn't have full cut-under for the front wheels. Jack-knife just a little bit too much and the wheels will catch on the wagon and flip it over.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #44  
Here is the rule and it is important for communication and having a quality agricultural community. If the wheels are in the center it is a trailer. If they are on the corners, it is a wagon. As far as backing, there are sufficient good methods noted in these responses. Another way to put it for rare use (little practice) is exactly as you stated - look and see how you can eliminate swivel points. You can do that.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #45  
My best advice life is too short .... just sell the trailer
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #46  
Mine has a something of a fifth wheel that dump mechanism rides on. I watch that to see which way the wagon is going to break. Everything else is too loose and wobbly to watch. If it's going the wrong way, I stop and try again. Backing into the barn takes about 6 attempts. Backing up to the burn pile takes 2 attempts. I learned while backing about 20 loads of rip wrap down a path along a creek.

1707136623243.png
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #47  
Once upon a time...
I worked at a spud farm where we grew and processed certified seed.
The loading conveyor stuck out the side if a building--a semi trailer had about 2 feet between the left side and the building when properly aligned for loading.
I used to back a semi trailer attached to a trailer mounted fifth wheel hitch [essentially like your wagon but longer] with an eight wheeled ARTICULATING IH tractor.
The principal trick was to get pulled out STRAIGHT from the target and do what you can to keep it straight!
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #48  
I tried my hand and backing hay wagons at a friend's house last summer. I was quite disappointed with my results, until I saw that every other person that tried it did just as poorly as I did. :)

We ended up disconnecting the last couple and pushing them into the barn by hand. ;)
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #49  
The real adventure comes when you have an Oliver tricycle
gas mule and you are crossing a small ditch with a hay wagon
filled with thrown hay bales from a john Deere hay baler; you
are reminded the hay or silage wagon you are in front of only
rests on the 2 axle running gear.

A friend told me that the and silage wagons did not have tongue
hitches at one time and the front tires were toed inward and chains
were used to connect the wagon to the tractor and the deliberately
toed in front wheels kept the wagon in line.

My dear neighbor was taken advantage of by the Harvestore way of
doing things where they pushed high moisture shelled corn and then
the acid preservative shelled corn storage method. If they had provided
him with a feed grinder in the conveying system after the shelled corn
unloader he would have made so much more milk as most all the
shelled corn was not digested and ended up in the manure
because of the shelled corn kernal pericarp.

All the work he did to have shelled high moisture corn for his cows
was waste because harvestore did not install a grinder in after the
Little Giant paddle conveyer that sent the corn to the Badger reversing
conveyor in the barn. He would have had so much more milk to sell if
they had installed a feed grinder and he would not have he needed
165 milking cows.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #50  
I can back a wagon with a tractor but not so much with a truck. You won't learn on this forum. That's for sure.
Good response. I back my hay wagons into a coverall type fabric building with a 16 foot wide door, often with a single row of round bales on them just to protect them from an upcoming rain. I always use a tractor, no issue. I wouldn't even consider attempting the same with my truck. I always go slow, and it does take time and practice.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #51  
Wheel brakes help too.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #52  
I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621
Boy sorry you got all those stupid reports, some where nice. Rule one when backing up a four wheel wagon it responses quickly to the action of the pushing vehicle, rule two what ever direction the front vehicle is pointing or turning too is going to copy but quickly, rule 3 slowly or make little gentle moves, Rule four good luck and be patent it will come to you more you do it. I can back up hay baler and hay wagon at the same time and put the hay wagon where I want it but each year have to get back into it all over again. lol after the first wagon it gets easy again so its not something that stays in you easy it is something if you did it weekly it would be easy. Hope this helps be easier to show and demonstrate
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #53  
It's a wagon, not a trailer. (who cares, right?)

The fastest way to backup a wagon is to put a hitch on the front of the tractor and back it up driving the tractor forward.
I care. First thing I thought when I read the post. Words matter.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #54  
I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621
While it’s good to learn new things, this may be beyond your capabilities. The only way to learn is by just doing it and making lots of mistakes. After you master backing the trailer up with a tractor, insert a hay bailer between the tractor and trailer. Or hitch two wagons together behind the tractor and back them up. Some will says this is impossible to back up. I learned how to do this many years ago. It’s something you get at the school of hard knocks, not on a computer.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #55  
Back when we hauled hay 50 years ago, my uncle had Case tractors. They made a hitch on the front of the tractor sort of right in the middle of the front weights. They would hitch to it and "Back" the trailer in while hook to the front hitch. I never did it myself, but they put that trailer right into place in the barn to unload hay bales
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #56  
OK Wagon. I have no issue with the term.

I already figured that it goes reverse as a normal trailer but I still cant get it to back up properly.
Would lengthening the tongue make it easier?
Or any of the other possibilities I mentioned eliminating one of the two pivot points i.e. either pinning the axle so it does not rotate when backing up or braising the tongue (using the 3-point arms) so the hitch does not pivot?
First, stop using the 3 pt drawbar for pulling trailers, there is mo down pressure on the 3ph other than the tongue weight. It is a good way to get into trouble. Use the fixed drawbar attached to the under belly of the transaxle—this can not raise up.
Second find an opened area and get some flags—the ones on a thin wire. Then practice practice practice. Then practice some more. You must think in a different way from backing up a trailer when backing up a wagon.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer
  • Thread Starter
#58  
Because if he doesn't have a practical use for that wagon such as hay ride, hay wagon , corn wagon ,etc, he will be much better off IMO with a regular trailer. I hope he comes back and let's us know what he plans on using it for and depending on what he says it might change my mind, most farm folks around here try to figure out how not to hook up to a wagon with a tongue on it, especially behind a pickup.
The wagon is 5 ton capacity with air brakes and dumping. I planned on using it mostly for moving excavation material from A to B on my property.
I will give it some practice but the solution might be to sell it and get a trailer instead of a wagon.
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #59  
Well around a corner is not an issue because so far all I can manage is pivot the axle to about 90 degrees as soon as I start turning...around a specific corner though would be a different story...
Some wagons can be a little tougher to back and get it to turn and go exactly where you want it to, straight back not as bad but backing some of them around tight corners in a timely manner not so much, there are apparently many on here who can thread a needle with one, but not most of us, so don't feel bad. :D
 
   / How to back up a pivoting axle trailer #60  
I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621
Why did you buy it?
Who did you buy it from?
Does he; do they know?
Do they accept returns?

" I planned on using it mostly for moving excavation material from A to B "

Form Follows Function - You wanted a DUMP TRAILER or a DUMP TRUCK.

Looks like GOOGOL ("how to back up with pivoting axle trailer") before the purchase might have save you:

Any tips for backing up the trailers that pivot at the front axel?​

1707143995527.png
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