How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

[4570Man]

I'd agree with #5 to a point. If the well can recharge at the same rate or faster than the pump can pump, it shouldn't make a difference until you get past the water level in the ground. The extra HP would only make a difference to get the water past the point of the water level to the surface, wouldn't it?

So maybe the deeper the surface of the aquifer, the more HP would be required to lift it to the top of the well casing.

I'm sure there's something I'm missing there.

Yes if the pump was set in 70 foot of water the difference in power to pump it that 70 foot would be very minimal. But you would still need to size your pump to pump it 70 more feet through air. Why else would you set the pump that deep in water if you weren’t planning on the water dropping?

 

[Valveman]

The wells in this area which use poly pipe don't have torque arrestors. I assume the single length of poly pipe just absorbs the twisting action when the pump starts. Plastic spacers are used instead to keep the electrical wire from chafing on the casing.

The threaded sections of the more rigid PVC pipe could fail from torque stress though. That's why the old pump had an arrestor. The old one you can see in the pic is pretty beat up but it had a design that allowed it to expand after it passed through the packer.

I never use torque arrestors. They get stiff over time, and if they were installed tight enough to work, they can stick the pump in the well. Those plastic spacers or stand offs for the wire can also break and wedge between the pump and small casing, sticking the pump in the well. Chaffing the wire and things that torque causes does not happen when the pump doesn't cycle on and off as its primary means of control. Double jacketed wire, taped to the pipe every 20', and a pump controlled by a Cycle Stop Valve doesn't need torque arrestors, wire stand offs, or anything extra down the well that can cause problems. Repetitive starting torque and wire chaffing are just a couple more of the many problems that are eliminated when using a CSV.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad it worked out.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I’m getting well drilling costs now. Prices all over the map. $7-25k estimates.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I never use torque arrestors. They get stiff over time, and if they were installed tight enough to work, they can stick the pump in the well. Those plastic spacers or stand offs for the wire can also break and wedge between the pump and small casing, sticking the pump in the well. Chaffing the wire and things that torque causes does not happen when the pump doesn't cycle on and off as its primary means of control. Double jacketed wire, taped to the pipe every 20', and a pump controlled by a Cycle Stop Valve doesn't need torque arrestors, wire stand offs, or anything extra down the well that can cause problems. Repetitive starting torque and wire chaffing are just a couple more of the many problems that are eliminated when using a CSV.

The pump has to start somehow. How does a CSV work? Does the pump run all the time? If so, doesn't it waste energy? Does it bring the pump up to speed slowly to avoid sudden torque?

With my other two wells, I use large or dual pressure tanks for added above ground water storage. This increases pump run time during each cycle and minimizes the number of startups.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The pump has to start somehow. How does a CSV work? Does the pump run all the time? If so, doesn't it waste energy? Does it bring the pump up to speed slowly to avoid sudden torque?

With my other two wells, I use large or dual pressure tanks for added above ground water storage. This increases pump run time during each cycle and minimizes the number of startups.

The CSV uses a small tank. Once you hit the low pressure point, pump starts. As long as you are flowing water, the CSV keeps the water flowing as if a large tank was filling but keeps pump going. Once water flow stops, it lets tank fill and high pressure turns off pump. The pump cycles less, but you don’t have a large storage.

 

[Carl_NH]

With my other two wells, I use large or dual pressure tanks for added above ground water storage. This increases pump run time during each cycle and minimizes the number of startups.

It works as Buckeye stated, but you can have the storage and the CSV to get the most drawdown before starting and then keep the pump running until demand stops.

This IMO is the ideal setup as it keeps the pump running during any demand, then only turns on after using the stored water, which reduces pump run cycling for drawing a gallon and turning off the spigot.

 

[Yander]

Where is Antman when you need him..

+1 for wait for the experts.

 

[cqaigy2]

When you restrict the water flow, the pump motor amperage goes down, so you actually are using less power, cause you are pumping less water.

 

[Valveman]

Thanks guys. Yes the CSV reduces the amps and uses less energy when pumping lower flow rates. Yes the CSV can work with either large tanks and small pressure tanks. A large pressure tank with a CSV is the best of both worlds for the least number of pump cycles. However, the CSV with a small tank is best for strong constant pressure in the house, and even with the small tank a CSV eliminates so many cycles it is still better than any huge pressure tank without a CSV.

When using a CSV the pump does not cycle 100-300 times a day as it does without a CSV, more like 30 at most. It is also fact that starting the pump against an almost closed valve greatly reduces the duration of inrush current and torque when the pump does start. Torque arrestors are of no importance when using a CSV and the pump is no longer just cycling on and off continuously as its primary means of control.