How to rig an X595 to mow in reverse

[aczlan]

It makes it safer to mow in reverse BECAUSE IT FORCES THE OPERATOR TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HE IS ABOUT TO DO BEFORE HE DOES IT. The deck shuts off so you have to consciously think about going in reverse and turning it back on. That pause will remind many people to turn around and look behind them before they engage the blades. This reminder may be just enough to keep a child (or dog) from being hit by sharp objects spinning near 2000 rpm.

I disagree. My mother in law has a L100 series Deere with the RIO switch and all it does it make me say bad things about Deere engineers when I use it.
The system on the Cub Cadets that I used to use (LT1050 and GR3200) was much better as I only had to push it once per engine start and I could look behind me WHILE backing up.

Aaron Z

 

[Carl Bert]

No, I didn't know you wanted to override it permanently, I thought you were just asking how to mow in reverse and you didn't know the tractor already could do that. I thought maybe you missed that part in the manual (or didn't have a manual since X595's aren't made anymore and maybe the previous owner didn't give you the manual) which is why I agreed with Tim and provided a direct link to the manual. Sorry for trying to answer the question ...




So YOU think it makes mowing in reverse more dangerous and YOU think it should be bypassed. Why does that make you right and everybody else wrong? And how can you say they don't save lives like a seatbelt or ROPS -- do you know for sure that nobody was ever saved because someone used a RIO?




It makes it safer to mow in reverse BECAUSE IT FORCES THE OPERATOR TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HE IS ABOUT TO DO BEFORE HE DOES IT. The deck shuts off so you have to consciously think about going in reverse and turning it back on. That pause will remind many people to turn around and look behind them before they engage the blades. This reminder may be just enough to keep a child (or dog) from being hit by sharp objects spinning near 2000 rpm. And you ignored folding ROPS in your reply. They only do their job if they are in the upright position, so you have to CHOOSE to put them like that or they won't save your life (Before you answer I agree this is not an issue with fixed ROPS like your B26 has. I personally disagree with folding ROPS but that is a discussion for a different thread).

I agree with you that people should be responsible for their own actions and we shouldn't need a RIO switch, but whether you believe it or not some people did misunderstand your first question. Let's just leave it at that and move on to other things.

Part 1. I won't bother responding to this again

Part 2. Have you even read all of the posts? Its not just me thinking that RIO's are senseless, pretty much everyone feels the same way. I love a good debate, but I prefer one that makes sense. In all honesty, how old are you? I don't ask this as an insult. I really am curious as to your age.

Part 3. Do you even own one of these machines? The deck does not shut off, not even for a moment, it stays running the entire time.

Ok now for the mentally challenged, the RIO system forces the driver to look forward at the most critical time, (when he is beginning to mow in reverse). He pulls the switch, begins mowing in reverse, lets go of the switch, THEN LOOKS BEHIND HIM. At this point he has already traveled a good distance, and would have run over anyone or thing directly behind him. If what I just explained to you does not make clear common sense, then there is truly no way to reason with you. I give up and hope you enjoy your tractor with its RIO system. Let me guess, did you vote for Obama? Better yet, are you going to vote for him again?

 

[sklunk]

Part 1. I won't bother responding to this again

It made sense to you but I am not the only one who misunderstood it - there were others (you said so yourself) - so it wasn't completely clear. Since you can't seem to admit it this is the last time I will respond to this one too.

Part 2. Have you even read all of the posts? Its not just me thinking that RIO's are senseless, pretty much everyone feels the same way. I love a good debate, but I prefer one that makes sense. In all honesty, how old are you? I don't ask this as an insult. I really am curious as to your age.

Yes I have read every single post in this thread. You are correct that others think the RIO is senseless, but to say "pretty much everyone feels the same way" is naive. And then you go on to say that debates are great if you think they are (which is basically what you mean when you say you "prefer one that makes sense"). Age has nothing to do with maturity, and I have no reason to reveal my age to you, but just to make you happy I am in my mid-40's. Not old by any stretch, but definitely not green behind the ears either.

Part 3. Do you even own one of these machines? The deck does not shut off, not even for a moment, it stays running the entire time.

I don't own an X-Series but I own a GX345 just like your previous one (and a 345 that was "pre"-RIO). The RIO switch IS inconvenient but I personally think it serves a purpose. I already agreed with you in one of your earlier posts that it should be located behind you so you have to turn around to use it.

He pulls the switch, begins mowing in reverse, lets go of the switch, THEN LOOKS BEHIND HIM. At this point he has already traveled a good distance, and would have run over anyone or thing directly behind him. If what I just explained to you does not make clear common sense, then there is truly no way to reason with you.

Actually, in your example you have already made the decision to mow in reverse BEFORE the deck ever shuts off. Did you ever think of this scenario:

Someone is mowing along in forward then suddenly moves his foot to the reverse pedal and starts going in reverse WITHOUT EVER LOOKING BEHIND HIM. Without RIO the deck will remain running and chop anything he backs over. But because of the RIO the deck shuts off, the operator remembers and then turns and looks behind him, then engages the RIO/blades, then starts to mow in reverse.

Both scenarios make sense to me, but I'm sure you'll find a way to make the second one seem wrong and foolish. And as far as common sense, I already agreed with you that if people had common sense (and were responsible for their actions) we wouldn't need RIO in the first place.

I give up and hope you enjoy your tractor with its RIO system. Let me guess, did you vote for Obama? Better yet, are you going to vote for him again?

I never said I "enjoyed" my RIO system -- I said I learned to use it correctly. And no, I didn't vote for Obama, nor will I again (hard-core Republican here).

 

[sklunk]

I disagree. My mother in law has a L100 series Deere with the RIO switch and all it does it make me say bad things about Deere engineers when I use it.
The system on the Cub Cadets that I used to use (LT1050 and GR3200) was much better as I only had to push it once per engine start and I could look behind me WHILE backing up.

Aaron Z

Aaron,

On my GX345 you have to pull the PTO switch up to engage the blades in reverse but after that it springs back into its normal position and you can turn around and look behind you while backing up, just like the Cub you explained in your post. The only difference seems to be that you have to do it each time you go into reverse, not each engine start. Maybe the Deere L100 is different?

 

[jenkinsph]

I have both an L130 and the x749 and the switches are the same operationally. Off, on and momentary positions, to overide the rio function the momentary contacts would be jumpered together. This still leaves the off and on positions to function normally.

Here is a suggestion for those concerned about running over small children and pets in the yard. How about rear view mirrors on each side or rear sensors such as the auto makers use. Sure these may cost more but if you are really concerned you can't put a price on a toddlers safety either.

I try to be as safe as I can when mowing, no children at home but all the dogs are put in the house until finished. I also look behind me when backing up no matter what I am operating.

 

[aczlan]

Aaron,
On my GX345 you have to pull the PTO switch up to engage the blades in reverse but after that it springs back into its normal position and you can turn around and look behind you while backing up, just like the Cub you explained in your post. The only difference seems to be that you have to do it each time you go into reverse, not each engine start. Maybe the Deere L100 is different?

I haven't run hers much (I prefer the BX2660 or B7500 with are RIO free), but if you are mowing around something like a tree (ie: using the hydro transmission to go back and forth) you have to hold the button in. When you have one hand holding the button in and the other on the steering wheel it is hard to look behind you to see where you are going. If you only have to have one hand on the wheel, you can look behind you and see where you are going.
You are correct, that the difference is that the Cub has a setting where there is a button that you push once and you can backup without the deck shutting off for that "run cycle", far more convenient.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Here is a suggestion for those concerned about running over small children and pets in the yard. How about rear view mirrors on each side or rear sensors such as the auto makers use. Sure these may cost more but if you are really concerned you can't put a price on a toddlers safety either.

Back bumper that shuts off the deck if you back into something?

I try to be as safe as I can when mowing, no children at home but all the dogs are put in the house until finished. I also look behind me when backing up no matter what I am operating.

Exactly, a little common sense and the use of safety "best practices" goes a LOOOOOOOOONG way.


Aaron Z

 

[Carl Bert]

Actually, in your example you have already made the decision to mow in reverse BEFORE the deck ever shuts off. Did you ever think of this scenario:

Someone is mowing along in forward then suddenly moves his foot to the reverse pedal and starts going in reverse WITHOUT EVER LOOKING BEHIND HIM. Without RIO the deck will remain running and chop anything he backs over. But because of the RIO the deck shuts off, the operator remembers and then turns and looks behind him, then engages the RIO/blades, then starts to mow in reverse.

Both scenarios make sense to me, but I'm sure you'll find a way to make the second one seem wrong and foolish. And as far as common sense, I already agreed with you that if people had common sense (and were responsible for their actions) we wouldn't need RIO in the first place.



I never said I "enjoyed" my RIO system -- I said I learned to use it correctly. And no, I didn't vote for Obama, nor will I again (hard-core Republican here).

Yes in that scenario where you accidentally hit the reverse pedal (that is what you meant, right?), the RIO system is useful, but it would do the same thing if the switch was located on the back fender. Wouldn't it?

I am a very tall man. I actually have to lean forward to reach the PTO switch, making it nearly impossible to completely turn and look behind me. With the X595 you need to start moving in reverse before you can let go of the switch. So in my opinion, instead of the switch adding a margin of safety, it actually takes a good amount away.

How about this scenario: A man gets in his car, puts it in reverse, does not turn around and puts the pedal to the floor. Dangerous right? Why don't cars have RIO systems, or for that matter large tractors or ATV's. Along with driving a motor vehicle comes a certain amount of responsibility and liability. If you choose to operate whatever you're driving in an unsafe manner, its just an accident waiting to happen, and theres not a whole lot that anyone can do to stop it.

I am all for safety, and if a system is put in place that makes something safer, I will use it. But I won't use one just because its there.

Hey if you need to know how to rig your GX345 to mow in reverse (without pulling the switch, just to be CLEAR), I can show you? LOL

 

[jenkinsph]

Back bumper that shuts off the deck if you back into something?

Exactly, a little common sense and the use of safety "best practices" goes a LOOOOOOOOONG way.


Aaron Z

I will also say that using the pen cap to keep the mower blades engaged makes it far easier to turn around and look behind me too. I don't need or want an additional distraction and there is no substitute for acting and operating in a responsible manner. That said in the mower manufacturers defense I can readily see that they can not police how these machines are used and or operated. These manufacturers need to do what works legally to protect themselves and that is the purpose of the RIO switch. If you run over a small child and have a properly working RIO switch then the manufacturer may be off the hook but you will still be responsible for everything, so for the homeowner mowing his lawn nothing legally has changed. If you disconnect the RIO switch or modify it in any way you are still responsible for everything and can make the case for a lawyer suing you much easier. It is my opinion worthless or not that the RIO switch does little to protect the child, pet or the homeowner. I look at the RIO switch, headphones and tunes in the same light a distraction I will do without.

A bumper with a micro switch might help in some instances and can add an additional layer of safety, seems like a good idea to me.

 

[sklunk]

Carl,

That post was much more calm. I'm glad to see we can begin to bury the hatchet and appreciate each other's point of view. Here are my calm (and honestly trying to be helpful) explanations:

Yes in that scenario where you accidentally hit the reverse pedal (that is what you meant, right?), the RIO system is useful, but it would do the same thing if the switch was located on the back fender. Wouldn't it?

How about this scenario: A man gets in his car, puts it in reverse, does not turn around and puts the pedal to the floor. Dangerous right? Why don't cars have RIO systems, or for that matter large tractors or ATV's. Along with driving a motor vehicle comes a certain amount of responsibility and liability. If you choose to operate whatever you're driving in an unsafe manner, its just an accident waiting to happen, and theres not a whole lot that anyone can do to stop it.

I didn't mean accidentally hitting the reverse pedal, I meant going in reverse without looking back first. Your example of the man in his car is the exact same thing. Apparently many people mow on their tractors and go into reverse without looking back first. Those people are irresponsible and are the reason the RIO came about, but there is nothing we can do about careless people.

I am a very tall man. I actually have to lean forward to reach the PTO switch, making it nearly impossible to completely turn and look behind me. With the X595 you need to start moving in reverse before you can let go of the switch. So in my opinion, instead of the switch adding a margin of safety, it actually takes a good amount away.

But that was my previous point. If you try to go backwards and the deck stops, that should remind you to:
1) Look behind you to make sure it is safe.
2) Turn around to face forward.
2) Lift up on the RIO switch while starting to go in reverse.
3) Let go of the RIO switch and continue to mow in reverse. At this point you can turn around to look backward and the deck should stay engaged.

I can appreciate your trouble in reaching the switch if you are tall. But you shouldn't need to keep one hand on the switch while trying to turn around and look backwards (unless the RIO operation is different on the X-Series).

Hey if you need to know how to rig your GX345 to mow in reverse (without pulling the switch, just to be CLEAR), I can show you? LOL

No thanks, I already know how to override it on the GX, I just choose to use it as designed. It doesn't cause me as much frustration as it does you so it hasn't bothered me as much.

You will never see me disagree with you about common sense and personally responsibility. Again, I feel the same way -- if it weren't for people with no common sense we wouldn't have RIO switches and wouldn't even be having this conversation. Unfortunately a small amount of careless people screwed it up for the rest of us. But we will always have people like that so we will always have "lawyer-proof" features added to our equipment.

Now I'm actually headed out to mow. Think I'll use my non-RIO 345. Enjoy the (hot has Hades here) night!