HST Problem/Advice

CBB · May 7, 2006

Hi,

I have used gear tractors for 35 years but my CK20 is my first HST.

The road crew dropped some fill off and I am in the process of spreading it with the front loader. I push the dirt down the slope but when I go to back up, the tractor stops even though I have the pedal all the way to the floor. A gear drive would just go until the wheel lost traction and started to spin. I could only get back up the hill by going forward and getting a start to POP over the little hump the tractor was stopped by. Is there something wrong with the tractor or is this how HST works? I really like the tractor but the same thing happened when I was in a wet spot and the mud was half way up the tire tread and the wheels were spinning but when I pushed the peddle to engage all wheels the tractor again stopped. Like if I had the clutch in my truck in just enough so the truck would not move but was running and in gear. Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks.

texasjohn · May 7, 2006

Am not familar with Kioti HST. I have a Kubota HSTC with 4WD. I have never had this problem when using low range and 4WD, which is what I use when pushing material around. Forward or reverse.

When driving in HIGH range, it is possible to put too much load on the tractor, either a steep hill or equipment pull, such that the tractor stalls its motion although keeps running. This reminds me to down shift, make sure I'm at 1500 RPM or above, and proceed.

You are aware that with HST letting UP (but not all the way) on the pedal is like going into a lower gear, right? Thus, in addition to being able to set RPMs high, you can simply REDUCE the pedel depression and think of it as down shifting with a gear box.

The net is that if RPMs, gear range and pedal position are proper you should not be having the problem you are describing.

albmn10 · May 7, 2006

Hello CBB, i dont have a ck20, i believe you only have 2 gears, you should be in low for heavy loader work and on any slopes.. Using the Hst is not like a gas pedal, i assume you have your tractor locked in 4 wheel drive under your seat. Simply turn up your hand throttle up as needed for slopes or heavy mud. I have the ck30 hst and high gear is only used for flat ground . If you get in heavy mud, make sure your in low and lock the differential and use around 2500 rpms using the hand throttle . The ck 30 has 3 gears in which i switch moslty between medium and low depending how much power is needed to the wheels.. Im sure alot of ck20 owners will help you as well.. In low the ck30 is a tank.. Good luck.

Bird · May 7, 2006

( even though I have the pedal all the way to the floor )

You have to remember that the hydro pedal is not like a gas pedal. Pushing it farther down is akin to going to a higher gear while barely pushing it down is like using a lower gear. Try easing it down and then go farther down on the pedal as you gain speed.

Mavrik02 · May 7, 2006

As the others have said the gear range you are in will matter. The throttle will also matter. Put the tractor in low and turn the throttle up and you should be fine.

CBB · May 7, 2006

( ( even though I have the pedal all the way to the floor )

You have to remember that the hydro pedal is not like a gas pedal. Pushing it farther down is akin to going to a higher gear while barely pushing it down is like using a lower gear. Try easing it down and then go farther down on the pedal as you gain speed. )

Good answers. I should restate myself. Gas up all the way, low range, 4 wheel engaged and the hydro pedal just barely touched. I just took the tractor out and tried to go up our meadow, which is really steep, and I had to back down and take another way. It just does not have the power to make it up the hill. The tractor has 25 hours on it, I bought it with 18. Could it be lacking fluids or something mechanical? I am thinking I would expect the CK 20 to make it up no problem. Our Ford 1700 would and it has less hp that the CK 20. Again, good answers because I was not clear but still need guidance.
I noticed when I was back dragging with the bucket if I raised it too high so the front wheels were off the ground, it seems to have some safety feature which cuts out the power, too. As a farmer in hill country, I probably push the "safety" bubble for slopes and such but I have been doing this my whole life. Actually, having a tractor stop going up a steep slope is more dangerous because backing down in a pain. Anyhow. Help?

Inspector507 · May 7, 2006

The Ford 1700 was a gear tractor at 23 PTO HP. No way to even compare the two. If it's lacking fluids, it should never have even been started up.

unhappykioti · May 7, 2006

Take your tractor to the shop NOW, mine was doing the same thing it was fine as long as you were on flat ground but if you needed the power to go up an incline it just would not go. My tractor has been in the shop now for a month the dealer has been working with Kioti tech support have changed some parts and made some adjustments but it is still not right so they are thinking it has to be internal and are splitting the tractor. No idea when I am going to get my tractor back.

albmn10 · May 7, 2006

Hello CBB, just curious when you climbed your meadow, do you have the backhoe on? And are all your wheels filled? I saw you have a cab as well... How steep is this hill? Im just curious if your asking alot of a 21hp tractor?

CBB · May 7, 2006

( Hello CBB, just curious when you climbed your meadow, do you have the backhoe on? And are all your wheels filled? I saw you have a cab as well... How steep is this hill? Im just curious if your asking alot of a 21hp tractor? )

Hi,
I checked the fluids and all is okay. The manual says it could be air cleaner or bad fuel if the engine is lacking power.
The tires are not loaded but the backhoe is on.
The incline is made by our electric golf carts no problem.
Gosh, I hope it is just fuel and not something else. It is fine on the level but...given I live in the hills, it would be pretty useless if it can't make it up hills.

Bird · May 7, 2006

Well, low range, 4WD, full throttle . . . if it won't either climb the hill or spin a tire, it sounds as if something isn't right, and probably need to see a dealer.

KiotiJohn · May 8, 2006

Some possiblities.
There are several possibilites.
One is that the pressure relief valves are hitting relief too soon. There were some problem PR valves in several CK20 models.
The symptoms were similar to yours. You would start to go over a hump or something, and the tractor would hit relief and stop moving, making that familiar sound it does when it hits relief.

In this case it would act like it does when you try to use high range and full HST pedal going up a hill.

There's no reason the CK20 shouldn't climp the steep incline in low range with moderate pedal.

Second, you could have bad fuel, often with a blackish goopy look to it from organic growth in the too old fuel. Your filter would be clogged with it. If you take the filter out, make sure not to lose the little O ring ring that is on top of some of them. Replace the filter if it looks gummed up.

If you have too much water in the fuel, you'll see the water in the bottom of the site glass, usually will look almost beige to gray-white. Take off the site glass and empty the bowl, no need to remove the filter unless it's clogged.

Take the air filter off and bang the rubber end on something to knock out some of what it's trapped. I also always blow mine from the inside and outside with compressed air to clean it out well. I wouldn't expect anything major with those few hours.

Check to make sure the filter is seating properly and nothing is blocking the intake of air.

One more thing I want you to check. Make sure you have the power beyong switch completely in the proper position. If you have the backhoe on, the lever should be right at 3:00 if you're looking down on it from the platform, looking through the loader mount. If you have the backhoe off, the lever should be at 6:00. Now this is if you're using the hose kit, not the remotes.
If you have remotes, try moving the remotes lever making sure it's in the proper position also.

It sounds to me as though you MAY have something that is not quite set right and it's compromising the hydraulic flow.

John

Egon · May 8, 2006

Sounds like a dealer maintenance shop solution.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bluechip · May 8, 2006

As John said, be sure if you have remotes they are not latched in one way or the other, and if you are useing the hose kit to run the backhoe, make sure the valve is set right. also be sure you dont have signs of water in the hydr oil, it can sludge up and block the filter up. If the tractor still has some warranty on it (was this the practially new ebay one?) the dealer can transfer the remaining warranty to you.

CBB · May 8, 2006

Okay Guys,

Great suggestions. I will give it a look tonight. Ran out of sunlight yesterday.

I am basically thrilled with the tractor and can't wait to get back on it.

Thank you much for the input.

VictorW · May 8, 2006

Like Albmn10, I have the CK30hst. I have never been at a loss for power. I snow plowed this past winter and do it in medium range. It will push a full load on a 6ft back blade. Much of the plowing is done in reverse with no problems. In low range, it's a tank and will spin all the wheels if it can't move the load. Mine does feel a little slower with the BH on but with the weight, it just makes the back tires dig in better.
I couldn't find the post but I do remember one member advising he didn't have much power with his CK30hst even though the engine was running fine. It ended up being the relief valve that was opening to soon as KiotiJohn mentioned. I can't help you with the BH valve on your CK20 because it's different than mine but if mine isn't set right, the tractor doesn't have much go power.

CBB · May 8, 2006

( Some possiblities.
There are several possibilites.
One is that the pressure relief valves are hitting relief too soon. There were some problem PR valves in several CK20 models.
The symptoms were similar to yours. You would start to go over a hump or something, and the tractor would hit relief and stop moving, making that familiar sound it does when it hits relief.

In this case it would act like it does when you try to use high range and full HST pedal going up a hill.

There's no reason the CK20 shouldn't climp the steep incline in low range with moderate pedal.

One more thing I want you to check. Make sure you have the power beyong switch completely in the proper position. If you have the backhoe on, the lever should be right at 3:00 if you're looking down on it from the platform, looking through the loader mount. If you have the backhoe off, the lever should be at 6:00. Now this is if you're using the hose kit, not the remotes.
If you have remotes, try moving the remotes lever making sure it's in the proper position also.

It sounds to me as though you MAY have something that is not quite set right and it's compromising the hydraulic flow.

John )

Filter clean. Fuel fine.

The hoses from the BH and FEL all go to a set of remotes positioned on the front right side of the cab. The hydraulic level was set at 6:00. I had a tough time breaking it free so I could move it to 3:00. At that point, none of the hydraulics worked. I put the lever back in the 6:00 position. It is so stiff, I got my first Kioti gash on the top of my knuckle.
Noted improvement. I went back to the hill it would not climb yesterday and it did climb it. Since it has the bumper to bumper warranty for two years, I am going to use it for the summer and in the fall, have the shop check the relief valve out when it is serviced.
Thanks to all for the advice.

dfkrug · May 8, 2006

So, Victor....

Have you done anything about checking the relief valve for
the CK30's hydro trans? I wonder what pressure it should be
set to. I will check my manual.

I ask because all the tractors I have had, HST and gear, could
never be stalled in low gear, regardless of load. They just
spun tires. Now that said, I was pulling some old water lines
out of the ground the other day with my CK30HST and I put
the HST into relief. No tire spinning. Low gear, with 4WD and
diff locked, but with low-traction R4 tires. I was amazed and
dissappointed. I wonder if the relief is set to spec?

TBDonnelly · May 8, 2006

Now that said, I was pulling some old water lines
out of the ground the other day with my CK30HST and I put
the HST into relief. No tire spinning. Low gear, with 4WD and
diff locked, but with low-traction R4 tires. I was amazed and
dissappointed. I wonder if the relief is set to spec? 

How many RPM's were you turning?

Don