HST vs shuttle

[Skip77]

Being new to the HST (meaning I know nothing about them) I have some questions for those who know more than I do. I was raised up running tractors from the age of 5 or 6 and was running my dads tractor solo around that age. I have only operated old school manual transmission tractors or a shuttle shift manual tractor so I have no real world experience with a HST. I have heard that the HST can and do lose power as they age do to the hydraulics weakening over time. I have even heard that it starts as early as 6 or 7 years old. I have been looking at and researching different tractors as I will be needing to buy one soon. I have almost 40 acres that is mostly pasture and mostly a hillside. I will be mowing, possibly putting up hay as well as feeding it in the winter. I will need to perform upkeep on the road and haul rocks. I would like to get a backhoe attachment for running water, electric lines as needed or just digging drainage or digging new cattleguard ditches. I also have a pond that I will be draining and cleaning out at some point. With all this in mind I would like your opinions and real life experiences to help me decide if a shuttle or a HST tractor is right for my needs. Once that is established we will then get into size and brand talks.

Thank you

Skip

 

[arrow]

If you are not pulling heavy weight or using ground engaging implements, you'll thank everyone who tells you to get a hydro. And this is coming from a once diehard gear guy.

 

[teg]

...I have heard that the HST can and do lose power as they age do to the hydraulics weakening over time...

Never heard that before and pretty sure is not true.

 

[ProjectKing]

For operation your size I would get shuttle shift or power shift. You are gonna need a 50 plus HP tractor.

Hydro is good for loader work. But for heavy PTO work like hay and mowing shuttle is my choice. I have both.

 

[oldnslo]

Properly maintained a HST should operate for 3000 + hours with little power loss. Yes if not maintained these can be a big power loss.

Unless you are doing a lot of work requiring significant speed changes the shuttle shift is a better choice.

Significant speed changes or a lot of slow precise movements is where HST's shine.

 

[marchanna]

A lot of the HST’s have cruise control now also. So you can set the speed just like with a shuttle.

I have a shuttle. I like it. I don’t feel any need for an HST.

 

[LouNY]

I went with a power shuttle, what I miss the most is a shift on the go, like a TA or Hydra-power.

 

[Skip77]

For operation your size I would get shuttle shift or power shift. You are gonna need a 50 plus HP tractor.

Hydro is good for loader work. But for heavy PTO work like hay and mowing shuttle is my choice. I have both.

I was thinking a 55 or 65 hp would be my best choice but I have noticed a pretty good price difference between the 2. I would be doing dirt work probably the most at first but once that’s out of the way it will mostly be mowing, plowing and tilling a garden and hay work just basics small farm work. This may be a dumb question but what’s a power shift? I have been told that if I get synchronized gears then I would be able to shift on the fly. Is that true?

Thanks

Skip

 

[LouNY]

I was thinking a 55 or 65 hp would be my best choice but I have noticed a pretty good price difference between the 2. I would be doing dirt work probably the most at first but once that’s out of the way it will mostly be mowing, plowing and tilling a garden and hay work just basics small farm work. This may be a dumb question but what’s a power shift? I have been told that if I get synchronized gears then I would be able to shift on the fly. Is that true?

Thanks

Skip

It may be synchronized but with any kind of drawbar load it won't shift like a truck you will be able to go up a gear or two if you are roading it around but pulling hard as soon as you clutch you will be basically restarting in what ever gear you went to, unless you were to try and change gears while going downhill with a load which could easily result in a run away and whole lot of pucker factor.
A power shift is a transmission that acts similar to a manually shifted automatic only they usually are comprised numerous wet clutch packs and or planetary gearsets. A lot of older ag tractors had a shift on the go auxiliary that was a 1/3 or so of a gear change, it was nice for head land turns or hitting a hard spot doing tillage, hauling loads up hill or just slowing down a bit for any reason the going back to your main gear. IH had TA's torque amplifier, Oliver had Hydra-power then Hydra-shifts, AC had the PD power director and so on.

 

[DK35vince]

I have been told that if I get synchronized gears then I would be able to shift on the fly. Is that true?

Yes, I have an 8/8 synchronized transmission.
I can shift on the go, forward or reverse.
I need to stop to change ranges.

 

[Old Red]

Man I have both, but in two way different tractors. A tiny BX and the utility sized 70hp Kubota M6800 (today's M7060). Anyway, huge fan of HST and wish my big tractor was HST. I do a lot of discing and batwing mowing and still would love it if the larger tractor had HST. Just so darn convenient.

 

[Grandad4]

I ran my 46 hp HST tractor for 15 years, doing plenty of heavy work and on the day I sold it the HST was working exactly the same as when it was brand new. If the hydro is abused through poor maintenance or overheating, the damage could result in a loss of power, but with proper maintenance a good HST drive system is very reliable and durable. For traditional ag work a power shift or shuttle drive is more efficient but HST is very convenient in a general chore tractor, particularly if you think others in your family may also be using it.

 

[goeduck]

It has been pretty much said. HST is good for yard work and loader work. Anything changing directions and speed a lot. For ground engage and more power, a shuttle shift. I have both, both are good.

 

[Tractorable]

Yanmar has a new "integrated hydro mechanical transmission" (iHMT) which is easily removable and serviceable.

The i-HMT design efficiently converts horsepower and lets you choose the right speed for every task and application.

- Low fuel consumption due to transmission efficiency
- Fingertip, clutch-less control of forward/reverse
- Stop tractor without using the clutch
- 58.9 horsepower

The YT359 includes auto throttle that enables you to control engine and travel speed with the accelerator/drive pedal. This makes operating the tractor like driving a car or truck with an automatic transmission car. A/B Mode lets you preset your maximum travel speed. An anti-stall feature keeps your engine running when you dig or lift a heavy load. There’s also cruise control to keep you moving efficiently when mowing or traveling for long stretches.

 

[rScotty]

Never heard that before (about HST wearing out early) and pretty sure is not true.

I agree. That's a first time hearing that for me too. And there's no mechanical reason why a good HST should wear out early. Many of your big construction machines are HST along with the ability to pre-select an operating range. Some call these multi-speed HST.

Here, we still have some gear drive and shuttle tractors as well as the HST. For us it is going to be HST for any loader tractor from now on. HST works so much better for loader work that it more than offsets any advantages that gears or power shift might have doing other things. HST is also much better on hills & rough country. Straight gears would be my second choice as I just don't like the abruptness of the straight power shift. Of course if most of what a person does is field work or crop work where you just go back and forth over unchanging acerage for hours then that is where HST without cruise control is nobody's choice.

There's other choices too. It's possible to have the best of both worlds if you get HST that has many selectable ranges and also has cruise control. Our Kubota M59 is really a half way hybrid transmission because it is HST, but before setting out you first select with a console lever which of 3 ranges from creep to road that you want to be in - and then while moving use a powershift lever on the dash to select either high or low within that range - and all the time with your right foot you work the HST pedal for overall speed/power and forward/reverse like any HST.

I hadn't thought about it before, but having this many pre-selectable ranges is probably one of the reasons that the high end HST machines last so well.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

This may be a dumb question but what痴 a power shift? I have been told that if I get synchronized gears then I would be able to shift on the fly. Is that true?

Thanks

Skip

Basic Powershift is a transmission that has internal clutch packs that do the same thing as a foot clutch but they do it automatically.
Instead of a shift lever and a foot clutch, you just have a lever - usually up on the steering column where you can twist it with your fingers to shift between various speeds and also pull the lever back and forth to go forwards and reverse. True Fingertip Control, but sometimes it will lag for a second and then engage with a bump. The lag can be exciting on hills, but overall the power shift is great for doing field work or anytime you have to travel some distance between chores.

Yes, a synchronized gear shifting tractor works exactly like the gears in your car. There is a foot clutch and you can shift whenever you want. It is common for the higher end syncronized gear shifting tractors to also have a fingertip High/Low gear splitter up on the steering column for even more control. Some will even combine synchronized range shifting with that fingertip High/Low Splitter and add quick reversing too.
You'll like whatever you get.
rScotty

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Man I have both, but in two way different tractors. A tiny BX and the utility sized 70hp Kubota M6800 (today's M7060). Anyway, huge fan of HST and wish my big tractor was HST. I do a lot of discing and batwing mowing and still would love it if the larger tractor had HST. Just so darn convenient.

I have roughly the same set up, small B with hst ( hate it )... while my L and MX are gear shift shuttles ( love them ). I don't get the whole hst thing at all, I can move dirt, gravel or fel work with my geared tractors faster than the hst. Probably because of practice, but so what??? I wish my B series was geared...

 

[ovrszd]

Skip, welcome to TBN!!!!!

This discussion comes up frequently here. There is never a winner. It's too dependent on the individual operator.

In your case, being an old gear drive guy, I think you would be disappointed in HST for the tasks you listed.

You didn't mention a loader (FEL)?? Are you planning on having one?? Running an FEL is the only time I would want an HST on a 40-50HP tractor. I'm an old gear guy too.

My little JD that I mow grass with is HST. I wouldn't want it any other way.

My 47HP Ford is gear drive with mechanical shuttle. Change directions using the clutch and shuttle lever. It does not have an FEL. It's life is brush cutting and light tillage work. Although I'd like to have hydraulic shuttle, I certainly don't want HST.

My 95HP Kubota is gear drive with Hydraulic Shuttle. Change directions by simply moving a lever forward/backward on the steering column like a turn signal lever on a pickup. I have an FEL on it and use it a lot. I'm also on hilly ground with it. I like the control that this setup gives me. It's life is heavy FEL work, brush cutting and heavy tillage work. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Ask any question. Someone on here has experienced the situation and can offer their advice. Just keep in mind the uses of tractors on here are very broad ranged. All examples given will not apply to your situation.

Again, welcome to TBN Skip!!!

 

[Old Red]

I have roughly the same set up, small B with hst ( hate it )... while my L and MX are gear shift shuttles ( love them ). I don't get the whole hst thing at all, I can move dirt, gravel or fel work with my geared tractors faster than the hst. Probably because of practice, but so what??? I wish my B series was geared...

To each his own I reckon. Funny you have 3 tractors as well. I have the old geared IH 674, Shuttle Shift, and the hydro. I just love the hydro...and like everyone said it is mostly due to loader and grapple work etc. Spend the majority of my time in the big (compared to BX) tractors discing, mowing, and pulling a planter. I have never disced with the hydro and only mowed a tiny bit with the 4 foot frontier rotary cutter I have.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

To each his own I reckon. Funny you have 3 tractors as well. I have the old geared IH 674, Shuttle Shift, and the hydro. I just love the hydro...and like everyone said it is mostly due to loader and grapple work etc. Spend the majority of my time in the big (compared to BX) tractors discing, mowing, and pulling a planter. I have never disced with the hydro and only mowed a tiny bit with the 4 foot frontier rotary cutter I have.

Just my opinion, based on what I own and use...