HUNTERS BEWARE!!!
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>
However, I strongly feel they have the right to speak, and should not be sensored or "deleted"! Under freedom of speech no one ever said you had to sign your name. So I don't think the unregistered poster should be sensored, or only "registered members" (those in the club)should be allowed to make posts. As the saying goes, I will defend your right to fly the American flag, as well as burn it in protest.
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While I agree with you about the right to free speech, even (or I should say especially) speech that we disagree with, I must point out that the 1st amendmant doesn't protect slanderous speech, or speech such as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre (when there is no fire, of course). The 1st amendment also is only protection from the government, not from private groups who you may or not be a member of.
So while the anonymous poster may have the ability to post anoynmously, we also have the ability to clip it to comply with our rules. (This is pretty much the same as making sure only people posting job offers can post on a job board at the local university)
-Ibrahim
However, I strongly feel they have the right to speak, and should not be sensored or "deleted"! Under freedom of speech no one ever said you had to sign your name. So I don't think the unregistered poster should be sensored, or only "registered members" (those in the club)should be allowed to make posts. As the saying goes, I will defend your right to fly the American flag, as well as burn it in protest.
<hr></blockquote>
While I agree with you about the right to free speech, even (or I should say especially) speech that we disagree with, I must point out that the 1st amendmant doesn't protect slanderous speech, or speech such as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre (when there is no fire, of course). The 1st amendment also is only protection from the government, not from private groups who you may or not be a member of.
So while the anonymous poster may have the ability to post anoynmously, we also have the ability to clip it to comply with our rules. (This is pretty much the same as making sure only people posting job offers can post on a job board at the local university)
-Ibrahim
I dunno, maybe they're made from reprocessed soybeans or something... I mean, that's a whole lot of chicken mcnuggets....
-Ibrahim
-Ibrahim
Billc
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Ibrahim, if you read my second post you will see that I had already said that because this is a private board, the owner has the right to do as he pleases, including sensor. No arguments from me.
Also, I agree that one is not allowed to "slander", but one is always allowed to have an "opinion". The deleted post seemed to be an opinion, not a slander.
One other thought. The 1st Amendment is not just to allow us to speak out against the government. It also gives us the right to speak/write about people and institutions we don't agree with....or agree with.
Along these thought lines I find myself very concerned with "hate" crimes. When did we ever allow the government to punish thought?
O.K., I'm way off subject, this was about hunting wasn't it?
Also, I agree that one is not allowed to "slander", but one is always allowed to have an "opinion". The deleted post seemed to be an opinion, not a slander.
One other thought. The 1st Amendment is not just to allow us to speak out against the government. It also gives us the right to speak/write about people and institutions we don't agree with....or agree with.
Along these thought lines I find myself very concerned with "hate" crimes. When did we ever allow the government to punish thought?
O.K., I'm way off subject, this was about hunting wasn't it?
Hi BillC,
The First Amendment applies to the relationship between the government and the people; that is, the GOVERNMENT may not abridge the right of its citizens to free speech. It does not mean that anyone can say anything they want under any and all circumstances, or not make private groups which have more stringent rules.
I personally believe that more "censorship" in various Internet newsgroups and forums would be a good thing. Some of the groups are so wild and argumentative, that there is no point to even trying to read in them, let alone "discuss" anything. I believe that once you let a few remarks go, then the real troublemakers show up, and that's the end of things. I doubt very seriously that Muhammad would allow that fate to befall TBN. I sure hope not.
BobT.
A Indiana Boy
The First Amendment applies to the relationship between the government and the people; that is, the GOVERNMENT may not abridge the right of its citizens to free speech. It does not mean that anyone can say anything they want under any and all circumstances, or not make private groups which have more stringent rules.
I personally believe that more "censorship" in various Internet newsgroups and forums would be a good thing. Some of the groups are so wild and argumentative, that there is no point to even trying to read in them, let alone "discuss" anything. I believe that once you let a few remarks go, then the real troublemakers show up, and that's the end of things. I doubt very seriously that Muhammad would allow that fate to befall TBN. I sure hope not.
BobT.
A Indiana Boy
scruffy
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I would agree and defend anyone's right to disagree, but I found the post in question to have been down right offensive! I am sure GlennMac's opinions may grate on some, but they have always brought about open discussion on a topic, and allowed all to explore their own thoughts on a subject. I do not feel that to warrent a direct attack upon him, or anyone for that matter. Glenn's post have generated much in the way of open minded thought and a give and take, pro and con hashing out (in a non-confrontational manner) of viewpoints for all to consider.
I had earlier stated that I was 'almost' ready to recommend posting being limited to members...the only reason for such a thought was to insure posters were identified when posting. I use the moniker of 'Scruffy' but anyone can identify me by clicking on my moniker and find out that my name is Bob Hasel. Several Bob's, but only one scruffy.
I had earlier stated that I was 'almost' ready to recommend posting being limited to members...the only reason for such a thought was to insure posters were identified when posting. I use the moniker of 'Scruffy' but anyone can identify me by clicking on my moniker and find out that my name is Bob Hasel. Several Bob's, but only one scruffy.
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
I firmly beleave in freedom and liberty but,I don't see the issue as one of free speech. I don't have a problem with someone attacking a statement, a view, an opinion, or an arguement that I have made. I feel free to do the same. But a personnal attack is a horse of a different color. The rules of the board clearly state it isn't allowed, and I for one am glad. I don't think it has a place here.
ErnieB
ErnieB
scruffy
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Ernie, I agree. Stating opposition to a differance in beliefs or opinions is totally differant than being personally attacked. I am positive in my own mind that Glenn knew that his position would draw opposing viewpoints, but that is his prerogative to feel strongly against hunting or the killing of animals. I am likewise positive that he was NOT expecting to be attacked personally for his viewpoint. I am glad Muhammad deleted that post, and hopefully will catch any further such posts immediately.
Kelvin
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Re: HUNTERS BEWARE!!! Freedom of Speech
Billc,
I'll take issue with one of your comments (no problem with the rest). Quoting from your post...
"As the saying goes, I will defend your right to fly the American flag, as well as burn it in protest".
I believe that "freedom of speech" should be limited to WORDS, preferably spoken. I can even go as far as to accept written WORDS as an extension of speech.
However, I can never accept PHYSICAL ACTIONS as a expression of free speech. To me, setting fire to objects is not a protected right, whether it be a flag, abortion clinic, your own house, a person or whatever. Being a military veteran and having served in a few wars and conflicts, I am totally against allowing anyone to burn the American Flag in protest.
Even though the liberal Supreme Court would never agree with me, I also believe that it is acceptable to restrict OBSCENE WORDS as long as the "idea" or "message" that a person wants to convey can be adequately expressed using DESCENT WORDS (which is usually easily done). Accordingly, I totally support Muhammad's attempt to keep this board clean.
Kelvin
Billc,
I'll take issue with one of your comments (no problem with the rest). Quoting from your post...
"As the saying goes, I will defend your right to fly the American flag, as well as burn it in protest".
I believe that "freedom of speech" should be limited to WORDS, preferably spoken. I can even go as far as to accept written WORDS as an extension of speech.
However, I can never accept PHYSICAL ACTIONS as a expression of free speech. To me, setting fire to objects is not a protected right, whether it be a flag, abortion clinic, your own house, a person or whatever. Being a military veteran and having served in a few wars and conflicts, I am totally against allowing anyone to burn the American Flag in protest.
Even though the liberal Supreme Court would never agree with me, I also believe that it is acceptable to restrict OBSCENE WORDS as long as the "idea" or "message" that a person wants to convey can be adequately expressed using DESCENT WORDS (which is usually easily done). Accordingly, I totally support Muhammad's attempt to keep this board clean.
Kelvin
PaulB
Gold Member
Re: HUNTERS BEWARE!!! Freedom of Speech
Guys - I think we have strayed so far off the point of the original post that the true meaning has been lost. This post started because on of our members found a BOMB placed in the woods by an unknowm person. We ASSUME but do not have proof that this person was an anti-hunting zeolot. Thuis assumption may or may not be correct - as a group we have already accepted it as fact. WHATEVER your stance on hunting, free speech, burning the flag, vegetarianism, etc, I think we can ALL agree on the lunacy of someone planting a bomb, for whatever reason under any circumstances. Lets focus on what we all agree on rather than quible over the details that make us all unique. I'll shut up now.
Guys - I think we have strayed so far off the point of the original post that the true meaning has been lost. This post started because on of our members found a BOMB placed in the woods by an unknowm person. We ASSUME but do not have proof that this person was an anti-hunting zeolot. Thuis assumption may or may not be correct - as a group we have already accepted it as fact. WHATEVER your stance on hunting, free speech, burning the flag, vegetarianism, etc, I think we can ALL agree on the lunacy of someone planting a bomb, for whatever reason under any circumstances. Lets focus on what we all agree on rather than quible over the details that make us all unique. I'll shut up now.