Loader Hydraulic problem or just normal for cold?

[LD1]

No experience with mahindra. But about every other small diesel calls for 50hr engine oil and filter and then every 100 thereafter or at least the filter every 100 and oil every 200.

Hydraulics are usually filter and oil both at 50, then filter every 200 and oil every 400

 

[LD1]

Try reseating those couplers like I suggested

 

[CobyRupert]

Having issues with the hydraulics on my 3535...
I came up to my trailer, started to line up on a bale, tried to adjust my loader angle.....and nothing. Everything stuck again, nothing will move. Idled another 5min or so... still stuck. I had an idea and had my wife hold the loader control in the(not sure the term) curl up position while I lifted up on the bale spear as hard as I could.... felt almost as if something popped loose and it came right up. Hydraulics worked perfectly and I got my hay put up.

Then just today, I took a bale out to the horses. Again it's around 30 and I just let the tractor idle for a long time. Once stuff was working, I picked up the bale, took it out to the pasture, set it down.... no trouble. Then I drove around to the other side of the hay hut(we have a plastic feeder that covers the round bale from weather/slows the horses eating. it can be moved by hand but loaders are easier). I lowered my bale spear, put my spear under it, tried to lift it and...... dead. No hydraulics again. ...

First off: Do you store the tractor in the cold or someplace above freezing and then drive out into the cold?
Second: When you say "Everything stuck again, nothing will move.", do you mean the levers too?

If the levers are freezing (after you drive out of warmer storage) you have water in the "spring canisters" that return the levers to center on the valve that the FEL levers operate. My levers would freeze up, and it was quicker to hit them with a torch for a couple seconds rather than deal with taking it apart in winter. I finally took the canisters off the valve body a few weeks ago and was amazed at the amount of clear water that ran out (seemed like a shot glass full or more).
Where did it come from and shouldn't they have weep holes? Only thing I could figure was I noticed my FEL valves are Made in Brazil and it must be because the canisters had "summer air /jungle air" in them!

 

[DigitalCowboy]

It's currently parked outside, there are plans to build a barn where it will be parked but that's not happening till spring.

Controls are fine, they move freely and normally, the hydraulics just don't respond.

I'm thinking before I do anything else I should change the hydraulic oil and filter, and clean out that strainer. It's close to due anyway and I could see something plugging the strainer or filter... and if there are any metal shavings or any water or anything in there I ought to see it.

 

[kevin37b]

Sounds like the relief valve , or pressure bypass is hanging up . If you can feel it pop loose by manually lifting on the bale fork , that little bit of back pressure is knocking it loose . If sitting out , it may be collecting moisture after shutdown and freezing . Tryin to help .

 

[DigitalCowboy]

Dealer suggested trying changing the oil/filter first. Of course no filter in stock so that's on order.

Now I've just gotta go find oil...

 

[DigitalCowboy]

Dealer suggested trying changing the oil/filter first. Of course no filter in stock so that's on order.

Now I've just gotta go find oil...

 

[LD1]

I sound like a broken record, did you try the couplers?

 

[oldnslo]

I sound like a broken record, did you try the couplers?

LD1,
Unless this model has quick disconnects to remove the FEL valve assembly from the tractor they would not prevent all the functions from working. If only one function nwas failing I would agree with this 100%.

Digital Cowboy,
Not familiar with Mahindra but is the manual tranny fluid used for the hydraulic system? Do you know if this has a separate power steering pump or is there a single pump feeding both systems? I.e. Common inlet or two seperate inlet sources.

 

[LD1]

Dont know how his tractor is plumbed. It only takes 2 QC to not be seated and you loose all 4 functions of the loader.

Its free to check and takes 10 seconds. I have seen QC's cause some strange behavior when not seated. When he mentioned physically moving the loader while someone else operated the valve and heard a "pop" or something, sounds like it very well could have been a QC.

Not saying thats the problem, but again easy to check and rule that one off the list. Then onto changing fluid and filter next...

 

[DigitalCowboy]

When I get my oil and filter I'll probably want to warm it up before draining the old oil, I'll try the couplers then. I don't like warming up a cold tractor when I don't have much of a purpose... probably doesn't really matter but in my mind it does.

Digital Cowboy,
Not familiar with Mahindra but is the manual tranny fluid used for the hydraulic system? Do you know if this has a separate power steering pump or is there a single pump feeding both systems? I.e. Common inlet or two seperate inlet sources.

I believe it's a common tranny/hydraulic system. It's listed in the manual as transmission & hydraulics where it specifies oils. Manual says "Use mild EP type gear lubricant. They should meet API GL4 performance category with suitable additives compatible with paper based brake liner and taking care of noise" Hopefully when I get to the farm store it will be clear what oil matches that description... sounds like something fairly generic.

For the power steering, I'm going to assume it's combined as I don't see any belt driven pumps under the hood or any references to a separate system for power steering in the manual.

 

[k0ua]

I looked at your 3535 manual and here are some of the things I came up with:
In general change the hydraulic and Hydrostatic filters and the fluid at 50 hours then at 350 hour intervals.
Also clean the hydraulic strainer at every hydraulic fluid change.
Use a high quality fluid, that is common to most of our tractors, see the list below. I use Mobil fluid 424 which is also on your list
Shell Spirax/Donax is also easy to find and on your list.
As pointed out it wouldn't take 5 minutes to uncouple your quick connects and put them back on.

Here is the manual URL:



Adding Hydraulic and Transmission Oil
Oil for hydraulic system & transmission is common in this
tractor and reservoir for this common oil is the transmission
case. Change Hydraulics and Transmission oil initially at
50 hrs. and subsequently at every 350 hrs. of operation.
While changing, oil has to be filled in rear housing.
Check the level of oil in the transmission & hydraulic
reservoir as follows:

Hydraulic and Transmission Suction Oil Filter
Change Hydraulics and Transmission oil filter (A) initially at
50 hrs. and subsequently at every 350 hrs. of operation.
These Spin-on type filters are located behind on RH side of
the tractor. Remove old spin-on filters.
Prime the new spin-on filter with clean oil, and fit them

Hydraulic and Transmission Strainer
Clean suction strainer during every oil change. The suction
strainer (B) is located on RH side of rear housing and can
be removed as follows:
1) Remove suction filter of Hydraulic & Transmission.
2) Remove the Cover Plate (B) by unscrewing four bolts.
3) Pull the suction strainer out from housing.
4) Clean the strainer in clean diesel fuel, using a soft
brush, then blow dry with compressed air.
5) Refit the strainer.
6) Refit the cover plate and suction filter.
For Service / Replacement of strainer contact your
Mahindra Dealer.

Hydrostatic Transmission (HST) Oil Filter
Change HST oil filter (A) initially at 50 hours and
subsequently at every 350 hours of operation.


Transmission, Hydraulics and Oil Immersed Brakes
Use mild EP type gear lubricant. They should meet API GL4
performance category with suitable additives compatible
for paper based brake liner and taking care of noise. Use
viscosity based on the expected air temperature range
during the period between oil changes.
Please refer Oil Specifications Chart for oil specifications at
different range of ambient temperatures.
Following oils are recommended.
1. GULF Universal Tractor Transmission Fluid
2. Exxon Torque fluid 56
3. Shell Donax TD
4. Mobil fluid 424
5. Tractelf BF 12
6. Tractelf C4 - 1000
7. Hydro Clear Power Train Fluid
Other brands may be used if they meet all the specifications
and performance levels of the above.

 

[DigitalCowboy]

Well, I got it done. Nothing to really report yet, I started and warmed it up before changing- couplers were reseated, it didn't do anything. Loader stopped working several times as I was trying to warm the system up.

New oil is in... that strainer is a major pain to get out, at least laying on a gravel driveway in freezing weather. There were some metal flakes on it and pieces of what were probably gasket material. I hope that's normal... nothing there that really looked like it should have blocked flow.

After changing oil and starting up, loader didn't move for maybe 20 seconds initially then everything functioned correctly. I took it out and filled in a few washed out spots... couldn't dig much dirt, a lot of it is frozen now but everything worked fine. So far so good, I'm not completely convinced until it sits overnight in freezing temperatures and starts up/works correctly though.

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

I think your problem is in the loader valve, because your power steering works and is connected to the suction side with the rest of the hydraulic system, and is separate from the hydraulic system pressure side. That fact rules out the suction side of the hydraulic system. The first item on the pressure side of the pump is the loader valve, and the 3ph is powered from the power beyond port on the loader valve. So if the loader and 3ph don't operate, I would guess the problem is in the loader valve, maybe frozen water in it or the loader valve relief sticking.

 

[DigitalCowboy]

Ok I think I got a definitive result here. Low last night was 9F and current conditions say 8F outside. I had it on the block heater about 5 hours and started up. Moments after startup I attempted to move the loader bucket... nothing for a moment and then it very very sluggishly moved but it did move. It has NEVER done that so soon after startup on a cold day even the day I got it. I let it idle for 5 minutes or so and went to get a haybale... again loader was moving sluggishly for maybe the first minute or two but it did move which is a huge change. Set out the bale, no loader problems whatsoever.

Thanks to all who bothered to read all this and give their advice. I think the oil change fixed it.

 

[ktmhans]

i think you still have a problem. there should be no sluggish. its oil it flows. you may here the motor bog down a little but it flows. believe me i had my share of hydraulic wowos on my 4035. with an allen wrench lay under right side. and follow the cables off the loader control to the control valve. the cables go in the back side. on the front side theres 2 caps. 2 allens each. you can remove these caps and nothing goes flying. you may have to tap them back and forth. i bet they are close to rusted in. grab fresh can of wd-40 or pb blaster and spray the spring pack down under those caps. moving the loader control valve as your doing it. (Engines off) clean out the caps reassemble. if those valves are sticking , no oil is flowing threw them. could be part of the popping. no negative to doing this except 10 minutes of you life is lost. and now you know there lubed up. i forget if the longer cap is on top or bottom. snap a photo with with your phone before pulling apart

 

[oldpilgrim]

when it's real cold, you can expect the hydraulics to be sluggish for a while. When mine is brutally cold, the bucket will lift slowly and 'chatter' a bit. The fastest way I've found to warm up the hydraulics is to tip the bucket all the way to it's stop and hold it there for 15-20 seconds, then rotate it back to it's top stop and hold there, repeat a few times. Lift the arms up and down a few times. It only takes a minute or so for things to warm up. Sometimes I'll run it with the pto engaged, doing nothing.

The hydro oil has to move to warm it up. The more oil you move, the quicker it will warm.

The heater you have on your engine is good for the engine but won't do anything for your hydraulics.

Your last post sounds like a normal situation at those temps.

 

[oldnslo]

Unless you are running pretty heavy oil it should flow at 8 degrees F. If your power steering is working the oil is flowing.

NOTE: Running the pump to relief setting if is it not pumping at full capacity will severely damage the pump from cavitation. It will growl or chatter severely also which is another sign of fluid restriction.

I agree with lawalls and ktm in that your directional valve is the problem.

 

[Navasot]

It will flow but its going to be jumpy for just a bit no matter the oil. I see it on any tractor when it gets under 30 in this area.. loader and steering cylinder and 3point if it uses external lift cylinders