Hydraulic Tip 'N Tilt - OK, Top 'N Tilt

ronjhall · Apr 12, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

To Bird and all others that contributed to this subject.
I want to thank everyone. I could have never competed this project without the expert guidance that has been put forth here./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I don't know if I'm an expert now but I sure did learn a lot./w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

Bird · Apr 12, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

Good looking setup, Ron. I considered the quick couplers and think they're a good idea, but since I have no plans to run anything else off the hydraulics, nor to remove the hydraulic cylinders, I didn't spend the extra money. In your case, I think you sure did the right thing.

As for the hot oil . . .. I think I never had a problem to start with now. I was reading the manual instructions for adjusting the relief valve and it gave the pressure settings and oil temperature of 104 to 122. What I didn't know was whether that meant that should be the maximum temperature the oil reaches, or whether it simply meant the oil should be that warm to set the relief valve properly. After thinking about it some, and talking to a dealer and a couple of neighbors, I believe it was the latter. I did change to Amsoil to see whether I could tell a difference. I'm still not convinced synthetics are worth the extra cost; however, I do think (wouldn't bet on it) that it's a little quieter. And after running it at PTO speed mowing for several hours, the oil temperature did reach a high of about 135 (which I now believe is probably normal).

Another interesting? thing that I haven't posted before is that my tractor has, for quite some time, had a sound that I couldn't identify but didn't think was "normal"; seemed to be a very pronounced rattle from underneath, more so at higher speeds in 2WD. Last Monday, I got underneath it again for about the 3rd time to try to find anything that might be a little loose and thought I'd found it. I could rattle the "propeller shaft" to the front axle. I had to go to my dealer that day for something else, so I got under a new B2910 on the lot to compare and found I couldn't rattle it. So I took the tractor to the dealer and left it overnight. They said they were guessing it might have a missing roll pin. Well, the next day they said they had disassembled both drive shafts, found nothing wrong at all, and re-assembled them. The good news is that whatever they did stopped the noise; much much quieter. The bad news is that they don't know what they did to change anything.

Bird

Harv · Apr 12, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

Wow, Ron!!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I asked for pictures and, by golly, I got pictures!!! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif (Maybe I should have asked for money! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif)

I'm definitely adding the picts and your commentary to my TnT file.

I don't know if I'm an expert now but I sure did learn a lot.

That's how experts become experts. Nothing like the school of real-life experience, eh?

gordon · Apr 12, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

Bird, isn't that great--don't know how I fixed the rattle but I fixed it. That's the way it goes sometimes when your trying to find a rattle. They can drive you crazy. Just good that they got it the first go round.

Ron, great looking job if I do say so myself. You should be proud of yourself. Amazing what a bunch of yuppies can do isn't it. But I don't think I'm a yuppie. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I saw Birds picture posted here awhile back and if he isn't a yuppie I don't know who is./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Gordon

ronjhall · Apr 12, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

Harv
I'm in Digital Camera Heaven./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird · Apr 12, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

I've been called a lot of things, Gordon, but yuppie ain't been one of 'em; until now./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

hayden · Apr 12, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

Ron, Very nice workmanship!

Can you run throough how the valves are plumbed to the tractor hydraulics? I understand the two lines to each end of the cylinders and how that all works, and I understand open center hydraulics where fluid normally flows straight through the valve, and then gets diverted to the cylinders to do work.

But I'm confused about what changes with so-called power beyond. Is there a 3rd line from the valve to the tractor? If so what does it do when?

Thanks,

Peter

ronjhall · Apr 13, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

But I'm confused about what changes with so-called power beyond. Is there a 3rd line from the valve to the tractor? If so what does it do when?

Peter
I'll try my best.
I did not use power beyond on the 2 new valves. My thought this is that I would not be using more than one valve at a time. I may be wrong on this but every thing does work OK.

1. After mounting the 2 valves. I ran the line as follow.
2. Removed the Power Beyond port from the new front valve.
3. Installed a plug in its place.
4. Removed the Power Beyond hose from the FEL valve.
5. Hooked it to the out port of the new front valve.
6. Ran a hose from the Power Beyond port of the FEL valve to the In port of the new front valve.
7. Installed the Rear Hydraulic outlet to the tractor. Purchased from Kubota.
8. Hooked the out port of the Rear Hydraulic outlet to the In port of the rear valve.
9. Hooked the Out of the Rear valve to the In port of the Rear Hydraulic outlet.
10. Put hoses and Quick Disconnects on all the Cylinder ports.
Using this piping layout sends all the oil to the Out port of the valve.

I could have used the Power Beyond feature of the New Front valve.
This would require leaving the Power Beyond adapter in place on the New Front valve.
1. Remove the Power Beyond hose from the Power Beyond port of the FEL valve, and hook it to the Power Beyond port of the new Front valve.
2. Running a hose from the Power Beyond of the FEL valve to the In port of the New Front valve.
3. Install a Tee in the Out hose of the FEL valve.
4. Run a hose from the Tee in the Out hose of the FEL valve. To the Out port of the New Front valve.

Using this piping layout will allow full hydraulic flow to the rear valve. The Oil exhausted from the Cylinders when a valve lever is pushed returns to the tractor through the Out port.
I have included a schematic of the 2910 Hydraulics. It is marked up to show how the oil flows through the tractor.
The Out port of the Power Beyond Valves returns to the Transmission gear case. It has no pressure on it.

hayden · Apr 30, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

OK, now I get it. Thanks.

The discussion in another post on solonoid activated selector valves got me thinking about ways to just use the FEL control valve to operate other devices rather than adding more control valves.

You would need a 4 channel, 2 way selector valve (using my own lingo here). The selector would steer the 4 lines running from the control to the cylinders to one of 2 sets of outputs. One would be to the FEL to control it as we know and love. In the other position the joy stick control could operate the tip N tilt, for example. I'm an electronics guy, so to me this is a 4 pole, double throw switch. You could get real fancy and have a 4 pole, 3 way or 4 way switch to operate lots of different stuff.

This would be nice because there is one control, not 4 or 5, and a selector switch to decide which devices to control. Drawback is you can only control one set of things at a time.

Anyone seen a 4 channel, 2 way or 3 way selector valve? Nothern Hydraulics (or whatever they are called now) has a 2 channel, 2 way valve. Maybe they can be ganged together?

The selector valces referenced in the other post are 2 channel (two lines to a single, double acting cylinder), 2-8 way selector. I suppose I could just use two of them, but at $300 each, that's getting high.

hayden · Apr 30, 2001

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt - OK, Top \'N Tilt

It's probably too late to matter, but the hydraulic outlet blocks (both of them) on the 2710/2910 are before the 3PH. Presurized oil must be coming back into the blocks to power the 3PH.

Plumbing without the 3 power-beyond lines is OK as long as the 3PH isn't working. If it's working to lift something, it will create back-pressure on the outlet of the upstream control. Without the separate PB and out lines, the backpressure will be applied to the open side of the cylinder that's being activated. This will make those cylinders sliggish, inoperative, or even run backwards in extreem cases. But only when both the 3PH and upstream controls are activated at the same time.

The separate PB and out ports allows the open side of the activated cylinders to always empty out a non presurized line (out line that goes to the tank), even when a down stream device is working and creating backpressure in the PB line.

Wow, I think I finally get it.