Hydraulic Tip 'N Tilt

[LarryT]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Well Bird, You're way ahead of me on hydraulics terminology. I never heard
of a "power beyond" port until this thread started. Nevertheless, you've got
my hookup figured out. I just talked to my dealer and he said they would
sell the "kit", just the cylinders and valves, or however you wanted to do
it. He said they buy the cylinders and valve from Gearmore and fabricate the
hoses themselves. They have the templates for later model Kubota and NH
tractors. The company is Pauley Equipment in Escondido CA. The contact is
Frank Muller, cell phone 760-519-7327. Mention my name and he'll know right
away what you need. I've had very good luck with Pauley and Frank is a
really good guy.

Good Luck!



Larry...

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Harv, you're right; there are lots of places that can piece together what you want (after you decide what you want). The problem is that you may not find ONE place that can do it all. I've fooled around for months now trying to decide where and how I'd mount a valve (and nearly all the valves I've found have just been too darned big and heavy). I found one hydraulics place that had some cylinders, another hydraulics place that would weld the right ends on them, several places that will make up the hoses and fittings. Of course, I do most of my own welding, but I figure if you start welding on those cylinders, you'd better know what you're doing (and I don't figure I'm good enough). Even Northern Tool has the proper ends to weld onto a cylinder.

And your front end loader has a power beyond port, doesn't it? So you could use it even if your tractor doesn't have another hydraulic block or outlet.

Bird

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Thanks Larry. I'm going to wait a few days to see what I hear from Kubota and Carver, and if they don't find what I want, I'll call your dealer.

Bird

 

[TomG]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

This has been a helpful discussion for me, and maybe terminology questions are covered elsewhere in all this. If not mentioned before, I believe that standard hydraulic terminology is 'P' means pressure, which is used interchangeably with 'IN.' It's an important distinction, because if 'P' was interpreted as meaning 'power beyond,' then the hookup would be backwards, which can damage components.

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

TomG, the terminology and abbreviations can get confusing all right. My manuals use 'P' for pump (I guess that's the same as pressure) and 'PB' for power beyond.

Bird

 

[dullpain]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird is right in that there are a lot of places that can put the pieces and parts together for this.

Again one place I know of is
" www.baileynet.com " they have Hyd. Top Links, Cylinders galore, pumps, valves, pieces and parts.

If you are going to weld new attachment devices to a Hyd. Cyl. you would be well advised to disassemble prior to welding. You can easily burn and deform seals creating leaks. I would think hoses would be better "locally fabricated" after final assembley is in place. Any medium size town should have a shop that can do it.

 

[ronjhall]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird
I have been following this thread since it started. Sure wish I had asked as many question as have been answered here. When I hooked up the power angle on my snow blade. I tried to tap into the FEL valve. An expert gave me directions on how to do it. Haven't figured out what he is an expert on yet but it sure isn't on power beyond hydraulics. After piping power angle valve different ways to valve provided by Curtis. Started calling the true experts. Ended up purchasing the rear hydraulic output block. Price wasn't $68.00. It was over $100.00 with tax. The valve from Curtis is open center. It will only work with the rear hydraulic output block. Leaned a lot about the system.
Will be waiting to hear what you are going to do with the tip and tilt system. Sure would be a nice feature to add to my tractor. Larry's setup looks great. I'm wondering how they got the power beyond lines to the tip and tilt valve. He did such a fine job of the pictures showing the system. Maybe he could get some showing how the hydraulic lines were split.
I have several items that are of concern when adding or modifying the 2710-2910-model tractor Hydraulics.
With my setup, the power angle valve is mounted under the FEL valve. This requires that the lines be run from rear of tractor all the way to valve. They must be run under the floor pan and between the main frame of tractor to keep them out of the way of your feet and implements. The three power beyond lines already run there. This cuts down on the area to access the mid PTO.
Tapping into the power beyond lines can be quite troublesome. All the fittings are straight pipe o'ring or flare type fittings. The Curtis valve is tapered pipe. Converting them over to tapered pipe and hose fittings from TSC required many fittings. If I add the tilt and tip, I will make a block to go between the power beyond ports and the hoses feeding the FEL valve. This way getting the lines back to the tip and tilt valve would not require them to run between the frame rails. Already have five hose there now.
I think if I had to do it again. I would let the dealer do the piping. He has all the equipment to make hoses and add the correct fitting to their ends.


ronh/w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

 

[LarryT]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Ron, tomorrow morning (Sat), I'll roll the 2910 front wheels up on to the trailer so I can get underneath and I'll take some photos of the hydraulic line routing. The previous photos were "quick and dirty". I'll take my time and get some better and more planned shots. I'll even clean the tractor before I take the shots. At least there is no doubt that this tractor is used to do hard work. As I said in another post, my Dealer, Pauley Equipment in Escondido CA, has templates for later model Kubota and New Holland tractors for the hose lengths and mounting brackets. They are also a rental equipment company and they told me that contractors would not rent their tractors without the rear tilt & tip hydraulics. That's how they came to put the package together. If anyone is interested in doing this themselves on a 2710 or 2910, I'll measure the length of my lines and sketch up a plumbing diagram. Again, I can't emphasize the value of this capability for box blading. It's usefull for other implements as well, but is really shines with the box.

I'll post more pics Sat morning.



Larry...

 

[RobertN]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Hey Bird,
I have had opportunity to check out b2710's. They are so similar to my B8200(except the extra hp) to my B8200. I would go out on a limb and say you would probably just need longer hoses, since your engine is longer resulting a a little longer overall tractor.

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Larry, have you ever asked your dealer WHY they used the power beyond from the FEL instead of the optional rear hydraulic outlet?

Bird

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Ronh, part of the reason I think I want to use that optional rear hydraulic outlet instead of the power beyond from the FEL is because I can't see a good way to route the hoses from the FEL valve so they wouldn't either be in the way or in danger of getting damaged. And while neither of the two dealers I've asked knew anything about that rear outlet, one priced the kit at $68 and some change and the other one priced it at $71.

Bird

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

RobertN, I'm guessing the same kit would work just fine; would just need to get hoses custom made locally. I'm going to just sit tight for a few days, though. The dealer who told me Tisco makes that kit (and whom I won't name) has a reputation for very good service AND VERY HIGH PRICES, and he's a long ways off, too. So I'm hoping Steve Carver will be able to provide what I need, partly because I suspect his prices will be better, partly because of the support he's provided this and another forum, partly because of questions he's answered for me in the past, and partly because I can have him include some spare filters and get it all delivered to my door, so if I've got to spend the money, I'd rather spend it with him.

Hey guys, if we aren't careful, this thread is going to get out of hand and rival the Chalkley cup./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[dullpain]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird - a little rivalry is good.

Still hanging on every line. Almost literally.

Food for thought - I know at present everbody is talking about the 2710 - 2910 and now I see the 2500, 2200 (hope I get the #s right as I am not familiar with all of them) people jumping in which is great.

I don't want to cloud your original post with particulars about my M5700 just yet. Sure would appreciate it though if all interested in this thread would keep it in the back of their mind. I definitely intend to pursue this mod for my tractor. Have a rudimentary understanding of hydraulics but like some in this thread I never heard of Power Beyond till I got a Kubota. I have one set of rear remotes (tilt) on my tractor and will have to try and figure out where to tap in for the (tip)when I proceed. I'm sure when ready there will be good advice out here.

 

[Harv]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Larry -

That's good news that there's a dealer out here in Californy that knows how to put together kits. I'll give him a call myself next week.

You promise that mentioning your name will be a good thinkg, right? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird - that rear hydraulic output block for 68 bucks is a Kubota make/model-specific thing that has to come from a Kubota dealer? Just makin' a list, checking it twice. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[LarryT]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

OK here's the deal. The rear hydraulics would work equally well using either the aux port on the transmission case or the power beyond port on the FEL valve. However, to use the Aux port, a new adapter block would be required which is some expense ($100+ I believe someone said earlier). Plus, apparently the seat and some other stuff has to be removed to install it. And, there is some issue of making tight turns to not interfere with the seat or other structure. At $60/hr labor, plus the block, it was a lot less expensive to add a few feet of hose to go to the FEL PB port. Seems to be an economics decision with everything else being equal according to them. As far as plumbing, the additional hoses do not cause any problem. I'll take photos tomorrow.

Hope this answers your question

Larry...

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Larry, it makes no difference which tractor you have as long as you have a FEL with a power beyond circuit, and I think you do. That port is labelled on my loader valve "PB". Of course, this brings up another question. You'd probably need (or want) bigger cylinders for the tip 'n tilt.

Bird

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Harv, I don't know whether there are any aftermarket hydraulic blocks that would work, but yes, the one I've been talking about for the B2710 is a Kubota product, listed in the parts manual as part #6C040-9510-0 and consists of the hydraulic outlet, 2 O-rings, 2 bolts, and an instruction manual.

Bird

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Thanks again, LarryT, that's what I suspected. Longer hoses are cheaper than buying that optional outlet. I've looked at my tractor and it doesn't appear to me that it would be much of a job to install that outlet (of course, I've underestimated a lot of jobs in the past), but I can see that hose routing might be a little awkward.

Bird

 

[LarryT]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Harv, at this point, Frank at Pauley Equip will associate me with anyone calling about T&T stuff as I've called him three times in two days about it. He's sold me two Kubotas so far and I'm about to add a backhoe so he's pretty helpful.

I'm typically a build it yourself type guy but if I hadn't bought this setup with the tractor I'd be printing out all these threads trying to figure out how to do this and sometime in the next year or two I'd get around to building it (maybe). I figure it's already paid for just in the time I've saved by not getting on and off the tractor to manually adjust the links. Not to mention how much better the efficiency and quality of my work is. I'd say either way you get it, build or buy, is fine but the sooner the better if you use the box blade very much. Another, benefit is how much easier it is to hook up 3 pt implements. You have separate control over all three points this way and pretty much eliminates the need for the "quick hitch" deals. I guess you can tell I'm sold!

Larry...

 

[LarryT]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

McCallum, me being the expert that I am....(that's a joke!) I think you would just replace your single spool valve with a dual which would avoid most of the plumbing. Some valves even allow you to add a second spool. Then you'd only need the second cylinder and two hoses.

Larry...