Hydraulic Tip 'N Tilt

[gordon]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Well Bird it goes to show that a picture is worth a thousand words. Great work! A t&t you will find is worth it's weight in gold. You are now HIGH TECH !!! I still have trouble pasting in a url. But I'll get the hang of this computer stuff as I go along.

Guess you'll give us an update once you get a few hours in on the tractor. If it ever dries up down there.

Great Job
Gordon

 

[Thomas]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird,
Looks like you put alot of thought and $$$ into your finish product.

Glad you sent pictures {w/ your new camera /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif} so I could understand better in what you were doing.

I bet your idea would work good mowing ditch lines also mowing around trees where the roots system surface.

Like your setup where all you have to do is back up to any attachment. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif



Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[caddison]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird,

Fantastic! I'd been waiting for the pics of your project. Great job. I am slowly gathering parts and information to do the same with my 1320. Man, now I am going to get a camera also. Glad I have a understanding wife!

Now a question. I picked up a loader control vavle that I was going to try and adapt for the tip'n'tilt. What do you think about this, will it even work. Nice thing agout it is that it has control for four cylinders and only one handle. I'll appreciate any feed back.-----Cliff

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Cliff, keep in mind that I'm kind of a novice at this myself, but I don't see that it makes a bit of difference which valve you use, so long as it's an open centered valve (assuming that's what you tractor uses) and rated for the flow rate that your tractor is rated for. If it's a 4 spool valve, you'd only need two spools for the tip 'n tilt and the other two could be used for the loader; i.e., just have one valve for everything. Hmmm, that sounds like a good idea to me. Unless, of course, you put hydraulic cylinders on both side links like Mark Chalkley did.

Bird

 

[caddison]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird,

This valve would be specifically for rear hydraulics, I already have a FEL. I think all I need is two figure out how to get fluid to the valve. A single spool kit from NH that uses the factory lever position cost $418.00. This would only provide the hydraulics for the top link another spool would have to be added for the side link. If I can figure how to mount this valve and make it work it would deffinitely save a little cash, if not I can make someone a heck of deal on a FEL valve for a 7309 loader!----Cliff

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Cliff, have you looked at the pictures LarryT posted of his B2910 where he used a steel plate attached to the ROPS by U-bolts? That's what I originally intended to do and what I would think you could do. I decided to just mount mine on the fender because it was small enough to do that conveniently. As far as getting the hydraulics to the valve, I don't know whether the New Holland has and optional outlet to the rear, though I would suspect they may. If not, then you need to come from the power beyond port on your loader valve to the new valve inlet and from the new valve inlet to wherever the power beyond hose now goes.

Incidentally, this novice learned something else, too. I was concerned about fittings leaking and how tight they would have to be, etc. It turns out that they do not have to be all that tight to seal, and it's quite easy to connect them all. Usually finger tight and no more than a quarter turn with a wrench, and nothing leaked except the one fitting that I forgot to tighten at all./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif At least it was quickly and easily fixed.

Bird

 

[caddison]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird,

I'll have to check them out. That would be the most accessible place. I think I can come out from under the seat for the hydraulics. This is where the vale body for the factory single spool valve would attach if I were to use it. I'll have to look into whether or not I need some sort of plate to do this. I think I'll be able to save a considerable amount going this route. If it works /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif!----Cliff

 

[GlueGuy]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird,

I know this is pretty much all said and done for you, but after lurking here for a while, plus the fact that I'm ordering a new B7500 (should get it next week!), I decided that getting T&T installed with the tractor might be a good idea.

I got bids for the tractor, FEL, Box Scraper, rear mower, and T&T from three different Kubota dealers in my area (S.F. Bay Area). It was interesting to me that the bids for this one item ranged from $749 (low price) to $1500 (high price) installed.

The low price was pretty amazing to me considering what you paid just for parts. FWIW the high price was for a Gearmore model TT241-2K 2 spool valve, and a Gearmore model VB-170-3K ROPS mounted valve bracket assembly.

The low price used the Gearmore model TT170-2K valve.

The dealer I'm buying the tractor from showed me the installed setup, and it is real clean and professional looking. The handles on the valves are tilted a little bit toward the drive seat, and naturally fall under your hands right where'd you expect them to be.

If folks are interested, I can post pictures of the whole setup on the forum next week after we take delivery.

GlueGuy

 

[Harv]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

GlueGuy -

I would be more than interested in seeing pictures. In fact, I'm also in the Bay Area (Walnut Creek) -- which dealer has the show-and-tell?

Oh, yeah -- Welcome aboard! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

GlueGuy, of course we'd like to see the pictures. I've heard of Gearmore but know nothing about their model numbers or the differences in them. You say the handles tilt toward the drive seat; you may notice in the picture I posted today in the Tractor Customization forum that my handles tilt out from the seat - the handles I got first didn't have linkage that would work right because they were the wrong handles for that valve (personally I thought they ought to be straight up, but don't guess it makes much difference as long as they work right). And I think you're probably wise to get the dealer to do it to start with.

Bird

 

[MChalkley]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird - Very nicely done! Now, we need a full report on how useful they are...

MarkC

 

[ronjhall]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

I have checked to see when the last Hydraulic Tip and Tilt post was. A couple of days ago./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Must be a record length of time since thread started.

I need some help with my tip and tilt project. My friendly Kubota dealer has offered me a new valve from a FEL. For a price, I cannot refuse./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif If it will work. I believe that I can Tee into the FEL valve that came with my loader. Can anybody confirm it?

My next purchase will be a set of cylinders. I know that Bird has his system working. But going through as many of the messages as I have time for in the tip and tilt thread I have not been able to find where to get these cylinder except Larry T's guy in California. Shipping cost /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gifmay be the problem with this location. Can somebody post the dimension of the two cylinders'? Length, bore, stroke, rod diameter, and type of end cap. I should be able to order the correct size from one of companies that others have posted URL's for. I can modify cylinders if that is required. Thanks for any help.


ronh/w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

ronh, I'm afraid there's still much I don't know, or understand, about the hydraulics; however, I see no reason a FEL valve wouldn't work (in fact, I'm convinced it would). BUT, it isn't a simple matter of putting a "T" into the other FEL valve. You have to run a hose from the power beyond port to the inlet of the new valve and from the outlet of the new valve to wherever the power beyond hose currently goes. And the power beyond port on the new valve is plugged. As for the cylinders I used, the dimensions are included in my message posted on 1/15/01 (both are 2" diameter; top link is 20" collapsed, 8" stroke; side cylinder is 13.5" collapsed and 3.5" stroke - measurements are center of pin on one end to center of pin on the other end). And I had to add a bracket to the top of the side link cylinder (the original length would have been fine, but it wouldn't let the lower link swing out far enough). And while everything works pretty well right now, I'd like to be able to tilt the top in a little farther; probably going to have the top link cylinder shortened an inch or inch and a half. If you check http://www.baileynet.com you'll find they list top link cylinders for category II hitches (too big), but they also have an "800" number listed, and I think I'd call them and ask if they don't have something better and cheaper.

Bird

 

[ronjhall]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Thanks Bird: I won't give you all the blame/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif for my wife wondering where all these tractor projects are coming from. However, she is wondering where I got idea for the Tip & Tilt project. Then I showed her the pictures that you took of the Tip & Tilt and how I need it and a digital camera. So, I can do the same things. I have one on order./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Then this signature thing./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Guess I better get out side and warm up the Kubota. Have to get the walk and drive clear of the fresh snow we got last night./w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gifShe wants to go shopping this morning./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

ronh /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

 

[Bird]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

ronh, blame Mark Chalkley for the hydraulics stuff. I might never have known I could do that if it weren't for his messages many months ago./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif And we'll blame Harv for the digital camera expenses./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird

 

[TomG]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

An additional SCV assembly is what I'll probably use when I add more rear hydraulic circuits for a TnT setup. When I think about it, where to mount an additional valve seems like more of a problem than doing the plumbing. I'd try to get a mounting plate to go along with the valve assembly and figure where to put the plate before starting.

I think Bird's comment should be well understood before proceeding. I also think the comment described a two-hose system. Some of previous discussions describe connections for three-hose systems. A three hose system uses an additional hose (often marked as ‘T’ on the SCV) to return oil from operated cylinders directly to the reservoir. The 3rd line is sometimes called a low-pressure return. I haven’t heard, but I think a t-fitting would work to add a new line to an existing low-pressure line. However, I’m virtually certain a t-fitting won’t work in a power beyond line. In an open centre system, the centre has to be closed (by operating a control valve) before any pressure is developed. A t-fitting in the PB line would provide two open centre flow paths. A valve on each leg would have to be closed to develop pressure.

If you get a new SCV assembly, be sure to check for and remove a plug. Some valves can be used in either open or closed centre systems. They are sold with a plugged centre that has to be removed for open centre use.

 

[ronjhall]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Tom: I plan to do a lot of research on the valve piping before I start this part of the project. I already have a valve hooked up to the rear port. I use this for the angle on the front snow blade. I plan on moving it to the back of tractor and shorten up the lines. I will be mounting the new FEL valve under the current FEL valve. I have the tools to make my own brackets and handles for the valve. My problem is making hoses. I may have to break down and visit the local <font color=green> JD dealer. <font color=black> He will make all the hoses I need.

 

[GlueGuy]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

The dealer that showed me all the cool stuff was Noble Tractor in San Jose (Bill Nelson sales rep.). It's also where I decided to get the tractor from, even though he wasn't the lowest bid. He came close, and he'd already spent a couple of hours shorwing me stuff, and suggesting what I might, and might not want. I figured his time was worth the difference in price. That, and the fact that Noble is about 50 miles closer than the low bid!

GlueGuy

 

[ronjhall]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird: There really isn't any blame. I should have said thanks to everybody for the help. The wife likes to pick on me. She can't figure out how a tractor can take up so much time. When it comes to fishing though she can understand that. One of her favorite past times after shopping.

 

[GlueGuy]

Re: Hydraulic Tip \'N Tilt

Bird,

I'll have to stand semi-corected on the nagle thing. He'd shown me T&T on several tractors. The one that was angled was installed on a 3010, the one on the B7500 is straight. The size of the ROPS is the issue, and how far it is from the seat.

I am chompin at the bit to get the darn thing. I took my wife down with me day before yesterday. She's as excited as I am!

Will post pictures ASAP.

GlueGuy