Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump

   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump #11  
Fluid level is one thing which is good when it is above the plate area. You still need to get a hydrometer to check the electrolyt level, this gives you a good indication of how healthy the cell is. Any parts store sell them for under 10 bucks.
The truck does all the charging, I have not had to charge seperately.
I am half owner of this trailer and the other owner now owns that truck in the picture ( a divorce causes one to sell things:( )
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump #12  
wushaw said:
Fluid level is one thing which is good when it is above the plate area. You still need to get a hydrometer to check the electrolyt level, this gives you a good indication of how healthy the cell is. Any parts store sell them for under 10 bucks.
The truck does all the charging, I have not had to charge seperately.
I am half owner of this trailer and the other owner now owns that truck in the picture ( a divorce causes one to sell things:( )

Speaking of those pictures...just a tip to protect your privacy...never have photos of your license plate numbers...you would be suprised what info you can get from DMV...:rolleyes:
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump #13  
PaulChristenson said:
Speaking of those pictures...just a tip to protect your privacy...never have photos of your license plate numbers...you would be suprised what info you can get from DMV...:rolleyes:

Thanks:)
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump #14  
2 things occur to me that have not been discussed yet. If the trailer came from Katrinaville, check to make sure that the fluid does not have water in it, as that would give it a creamy or milky color, and secondly- look at those electrical connections the jumper from the solenoid to the motor looks rusty, and a ground wire appears to have the end just wrapped around a bolt, no crimp on end. Also have you had that battery load tested, Interstate will do it for free, the tester they use hits the battery with a load, waits, hits it again, and measures the response to varying loads, a much better test than old hygrometer, or carbon pile load testers.;)
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump #15  
A third thing just occurred to me check lines, hoses for kinks or inner liner separation.
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Good ideas, all. I'm getting ready to do battle soon.. have acquired additional battery power to see if it is the battery. Also hydraulic pressure gauge to test output of the pump. Plan to replace hydraulic fluid. Will hunt for any strainer clogs, also loose wires. Now, I gotta get my hands really messy:eek:
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump #17  
There is no way that the fluid return will lead the fluid output enough to explain the tank puking fluid. If the pump could not keep up to what the cylinder demands on the lowering side of the hydraulic circuit, there would be a vacuum created which would draw the fluid from the tank thru the pump into the cylinder. This vacuum would also draw air past the cylinder packings into the cylinder. These seals are designed to keep fluid in, not air out. Believe it or not, air is easily introduced into cylinders in a case like this.
The volume in the rod end of a cylinder is roughly half that of the base end because of the volume of the rod.
Here is what baffles me with the tech guys answer. In a double acting cylinder such as this, When you raise, more fluid is required (than lowering) because you are filling the bottom of the cylinder, the rod is in the top end. The rod takes up volume in the top of the cylinder which the bottom of the cylinder doesn't have. So, it does take more fluid to raise than to lower. If you are running out of fluid to raise, this tells me that the tank volume is way too small. Engineering snafu. So, when lowering, if the bottom of the cylinder pushes more fluid back to tank than the top requires, explain to me how the top can't fill up enough to keep up with the bottom? The pump should have more than enough flow to fill the top of the cylinder as the bottom empties. Except for a poorly engineered system.
Because of the weight of the dump unit on the cylinder, there is no pressure required whatsoever to lower this unit, only flow. If you cut the hydraulic line when the trailer is raised, it would drop like a brick. So, battery voltage would be a non-issue for slow lower. 12.5v sounds a little low for a resting, fully charged battery, but 11v under load isn't real bad. These pump units are traditionally slow. It's not pressure, but volume which controls the lifting speed, so a pressure gauge may not be much help. If you had low pressure, it wouldn't raise. Pressure is power, flow is speed. You need a flow gauge. These units have small pumps in them, not much you can do.
Total tank capacity about a gallon? If your cylinder is anything close to wushaw's, it takes way more than that to fill it for lift.
As far as your cylinder is concerned, lift the unit and make a mark on it somewhere for height. Come back in about 5 minutes and measure movement. You are checking for cylinder drift, a.k.a. internal seal leakage. No or little movement, o.k. Lots of movement, bad seals internally. You can also lift the unit and remove the line for lowering. There should be minimal flow as any flow is fluid leaking past the seals. If you do this, please be very careful as removing the wrong line can kill you.

This just sounds like a poorly engineered unit.
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump
  • Thread Starter
#18  
I fully charged (and proved it with a load tester) the 1000 CCA deep cycle battery, also hooked two 6V golf cart batteries in series, then in parallel with the 12V Cat battery... voltage before lifting was 12.5, during attempted lift... 11.4... and rock solid. Plenty of amps!

Same results, terribly slow lift, overflow on lowering the dump trailer bed.

Called PJ Trailers with that result, they put me in touch with KTI, the manufacturer of the hydraulic pump in Ca. Both fellows very courteous and knowledgable.

After checking model and serial number, (it's still in warranty) KTI current diagnosis is that they had initially used a plastic filter between the hydraulic fluid tank and the pump. This was a problem because when the motor heats up, the plastic filter gets hots, gets mushy, collapses and restricts the flow.. causes pump to work hard, inserts bubbles in the hydraulic stream, which don't compress very well. They will be sending me their new design... a metal filter and attachment elbow along with exploded parts view so I can disassemble tank from pump and replace the filter. The current belief is this will fix the problem and all should be well... so, am awaiting the shipment in the mail.

Stay tuned:)
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump #19  
Yesterday John and I spent several hours working on his trailer. We pulled the pump assembly out of the trailer, dumped the fluid, removed the tank, cleaned all the crap out of the tank, replaced the filter, put it all back together, filled it with fluid and hit the "up" button. About 1/3 of the way up, it was getting low in fluid, so we stopped and topped off the tank. When we started up, there was much bubbling of air in the tank. We had to stop again and top off the tank before we got all the way up. Much air came out while going up. As we lowered the bed, we lost a small amount of fluid because we had no idea of how much to put in, with all the air that was coming out. We then cycled the unit again, without having to add any more fluid. When it was all the way up, we stopped while we sat down and drank some cold liquid. It didn't creep down so the seals all seem to be good and the check valves work. The comments about the tank only needing to hold enough fluid to account for the size of the piston rod also seem to be true.

This is an end view of the filter:
View attachment 87151

One side view:
View attachment 87152

Other side:
View attachment 87153

Anybody have any ideas why this filter didn't pass fluid. :D

The filter appears to be of the "fine brass mesh screen" type.

There was a magnet in the bottom of the tank. I'm not sure what good it does because the pump is made from aluminum. (Maybe the pump rotor is steel.)
 
   / Hydraulics overflow and a slow dump
  • Thread Starter
#20  
James, good post.... dunno why photos didn't show.

All... had you seen the photos, you would have simply seen a glob of stuff completely covering the filter... preventing entry of all but an extremely small amount of fluid. I think that moisture/condensation over time got into the hydraulic fluid tank and turned it into mayonaise... it was creamy yellow, anyway, and there were lumps in it like curd...you know, like curds and whey:eek:

Conclusion... clogged filter resulted in all the problems. All seems fine now.
PJ Trailers and KTI the manufacturer of the hydraulic system were helpful. KTI sent me a new filter under warranty, no questions asked. None of the work was hard, just time consuming... and, 5 gallons of hydraulic fluid is about $25. I used all 5 gallons in diagnostics and repair.
 

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