Hydro or Gear?

[rScotty]

At the other end of the spectrum from that terrible type of powershift I just mentioned that has only a torque converter and no foot clutch there is Kubota's HST+ transmission in their M59 TLB. It has a HST transmission with six forward ranges, six reverse ranges, adjustable attack, selectable auto-throttle up and auto idle down, and best of all.... this is a HST with a foot clutch over-ride. With this transmission the loader operator can use HST for inching or use the foot clutch, or both simultaneously. That ought to be enough features for delicate loader work to please anyone.
rScotty

 

[RickB]

That is funny. There is a thread on another forum asking whether a torque converter or hydrostatic transmission is preferred for wheel loaders. The majority of responses favor the TC transmission which has been the cornerstone drivetrain for wheel loaders, industrial TLBs and vehicle automatic transmissions for over half a century. Obviously not everyone thinks a TC transmission is terrible.

 

[4570Man]

I liked the toque converter transmission in my 310. Mine was nothing like what Scottie describes. Maybe you couldn’t move a 1/4 inch with it but 1 inch at a time was easily doable. I didn’t have any trouble maintaining a slower speed than it would go in the lowest gear either. It was a lot more precise than a foot clutch. And I had instant use of every gear that the HST doesn’t offer.

 

[k0ua]

To the Original Poster. As you can see there are a lot of "onions" here about "which is best". There is NO "best". Each design has advantages and disadvantages. BUT for a newby that DOES NOT KNOW what he wants, I still think my "if you have to ask, you need a hydro" fits about 99% of the applications. If you have experience you DO NOT have to ask someone what transmission to get. You KNOW the type of transmission you want and which one will fit the applications you want to use it for. If you are a newby, I assume you want to work around your place doing some loader work, maybe some bush hogging, maybe some grapple or fork work. I DON'T KNOW how you are going to use your tractor, and the trouble is you don't either. So Hydro fills the bill most of the time. Plus you wife or kid can jump on it an with about 10 seconds of hands on demo, can operate the thing SAFELY. That isn't always true for other transmissions which have a longer learning curve. So, "if you have to ask..."

 

[RickB]

To the Original Poster. As you can see there are a lot of "onions" here about "which is best". There is NO "best". Each design has advantages and disadvantages. BUT for a newby that DOES NOT KNOW what he wants, I still think my "if you have to ask, you need a hydro" fits about 99% of the applications. If you have experience you DO NOT have to ask someone what transmission to get. You KNOW the type of transmission you want and which one will fit the applications you want to use it for. If you are a newby, I assume you want to work around your place doing some loader work, maybe some bush hogging, maybe some grapple or fork work. I DON'T KNOW how you are going to use your tractor, and the trouble is you don't either. So Hydro fills the bill most of the time. Plus you wife or kid can jump on it an with about 10 seconds of hands on demo, can operate the thing SAFELY. That isn't always true for other transmissions which have a longer learning curve. So, "if you have to ask..."

Very good response.

 

[rScotty]

That is funny. There is a thread on another forum asking whether a torque converter or hydrostatic transmission is preferred for wheel loaders. The majority of responses favor the TC transmission which has been the cornerstone drivetrain for wheel loaders, industrial TLBs and vehicle automatic transmissions for over half a century. Obviously not everyone thinks a TC transmission is terrible.

I didn't say it was terrible. I think I even said for industrial use the TC is fine. What I did say is that TC it isn't as good as the other types of transmission for making the kind of small precise movements with the FEL that smaller tractors do all the time.....precise things like using forks to take a pallet load of bricks out of the bed of a nice family pickup truck. For taking that same pallet off a dump truck the TC is fine. Nobody minds a few dents in a dump truck.
rScotty

 

[CobyRupert]

.....Each design has advantages and disadvantages. BUT for a newby that DOES NOT KNOW what he wants, I still think my "if you have to ask, you need a hydro" fits about 99% of the applications. If you have experience you DO NOT have to ask someone what transmission to get. You KNOW the type of transmission you want and which one will fit the applications you want to use it for.
...
...So, "if you have to ask..."

^That.

On a similar...but different question...are the PTO’s on hydros (and others) gear driven “direct” (through a clutch) from the motor?
Any tractor’s have their PTO driven through hydraulics?
Would that be called a torque converter?

 

[4570Man]

I didn't say it was terrible. I think I even said for industrial use the TC is fine. What I did say is that TC it isn't as good as the other types of transmission for making the kind of small precise movements with the FEL that smaller tractors do all the time.....precise things like using forks to take a pallet load of bricks out of the bed of a nice family pickup truck. For taking that same pallet off a dump truck the TC is fine. Nobody minds a few dents in a dump truck.
rScotty

My TC backhoe didn’t behave that way. There was no standing on the brakes and there was no lurching forward and there was no skidding sideways unless you accidentally hit one side while already moving. My TC offered very similar performance to a automatic trans pickup. A light tap on the brakes was all it took to resist the forward movement and you could feather off and start moving as gently as you wanted. No it wasn’t an equal to the HST but it was plenty good enough for what it was. It was a lot more precise than a clutch. If I had forks on the 310 I wouldn’t hesitate to unload a pickup bed with it. Not that I have a regular bed pickup anyway. Most forklifts have the same TC trans. If I had forks on the 310 I’d rather unload with it vs the 95 Kubota I had for a while ( didn’t own it ) or a forklift. The 95 had very good visibility down low but at pickup bed height the SSQA plate blocked most of your visibility. And I didn’t like moving pallets with the 95. You had to move at a snails rate or it shook them apart. The 310 moved a lot smoother. And a forklift doesn’t have the reach to load a truck without a couple of stab and drags.

 

[ptsg]

I didn't say it was terrible. I think I even said for industrial use the TC is fine. What I did say is that TC it isn't as good as the other types of transmission for making the kind of small precise movements with the FEL that smaller tractors do all the time.....precise things like using forks to take a pallet load of bricks out of the bed of a nice family pickup truck. For taking that same pallet off a dump truck the TC is fine. Nobody minds a few dents in a dump truck.
rScotty

What are you doing with your loader that requires that much precision? Inserting coins on vending machines or something? :laughing:

 

[4570Man]

What are you doing with your loader that requires that much precision? Inserting coins on vending machines or something? :laughing:

All the time. I don’t like using the jacks on my trailer so I set it on the hitch with the loader, I load truck pretty often, I spread topsoil against houses and pretty much touch the house with the bucket, pickup brush off grass without hurting the grass, slide pallet forks under stuff without touching it. And that’s not even getting into what I do with the backhoe.