Hydrogen infrastructure

   / Hydrogen infrastructure
  • Thread Starter
#121  
Somewhere along the line REDUCE was dropped (when we became Consumer Nation [post 9/11 we were told to "go out shopping!" - pathetic to the max]).
Can't say I follow every economic report, but laying the blame at the feet of the Consumer ("Consumer Spending was down....") started to sound like a broken record decades ago....

IMO, that ^ symptom needed bigger questions asked, about the actual problem.....

Why is domestic Business Investment so chronically weak ?

We (and most developed countries) have spent most of the last 50 years reducing or eliminating our heavy industries and much/most/sometimes all of our manufacturing sectors.

My simplistic view.... It's a Zero-Sum Game.....

Ergo, outside of govt spending, virtually all that's left is the Consumer Sector. Therefore, us consumers are the Fall Guy for poor economic performance.....

Blame The Victim, much ??? :cool:

Rgds, D.
 
   / Hydrogen infrastructure #122  
Dave, I was just reciting historical facts. I'm in no way blaming anyone (other than those knowingly pushing lies).

I had a take that was likely different than most on the outsourcing issue. Do/did we in the US really want to keep producing big screen TVs? And if China were to start doing so more cheaply then the US businesses would fold and the US (investors etc.) would be out with nothing. I see lots as being a sale before things tanked. Of course, what we've now seen is that there are KEY manufacturing activities that really shouldn't be sold or offshore'd. NOTE: in NO way am I anti-worker (completely the opposite).

The US's main product is the USD. The financialization of the economy/country [again, US-centric] started once the USD was decoupled from gold; it then started gaining traction in the early 80s (big neoliberal push via Reagan and Thatcher).

China's cheap stuff is like junk mail. It helps subsidize transportation costs for higher value things. In the US road taxes from POVs does this for trucking (yes, trucking pays a lot in taxes, but w/o POVs it would be astronomically higher). We are, therefore, pretty much a junk economy (not to be confused with actual recyclable "junk," which has value)...
 
   / Hydrogen infrastructure #123  
   / Hydrogen infrastructure
  • Thread Starter
#124  
What use do you (a society) put energy to ?

Detroit and Ontario (Canada) used to produce many tangible products, with our domestic energy and resources.

Now.... when that energy is primarily used so that our citizens can surf the net, watch Netflix, and mine Bitcoin.... well, perhaps those activities are still counted as "economic performance", but am I the only one that finds this ever-escalating virtualization unsettling ?

I often think of Merkel's comment (to the G7).... "It shouldn't be just Germany that manufactures things....."

The old summation of the last century or so "Farmer, Factory Worker, Clerk" leads to the central question - What do the masses do, for gainful employment, Today ?

IMO, using sustainable energy systems to produce tangible goods, then move them efficiently to end-markets produces value, and hopefully jobs that can sustain us peasants......

Or, energy ascends to be the plaything of billionaires, cruising around on megayachts and space toys....

.... I like my version, better....

Rgds, D.
 
   / Hydrogen infrastructure #125  
Interesting article about hydrogen production from oil wells.

I wish there was some metric on what it takes to obtain and pump the oxygen down into the wells. If that's easy and cheap to do then this is, IMO, the way to go for the heavy-lifting machines (trucks, ships, trains?): I have some reservation about POVs, but am open to learning about how they could work (charging and distance; also space required for the on-board equipment).
 
   / Hydrogen infrastructure #126  
   / Hydrogen infrastructure
  • Thread Starter
#127  
Interesting article about hydrogen production from oil wells.

THAT ^ is an example of.... Well, the (relatively) simple solution is sitting right in front of us !

Sounds promising..... I do hope they get commercial traction on those pilot tests.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Hydrogen infrastructure
  • Thread Starter
#128  
   / Hydrogen infrastructure #129  
Dave, I was just reciting historical facts. I'm in no way blaming anyone (other than those knowingly pushing lies).

I had a take that was likely different than most on the outsourcing issue. Do/did we in the US really want to keep producing big screen TVs? And if China were to start doing so more cheaply then the US businesses would fold and the US (investors etc.) would be out with nothing. I see lots as being a sale before things tanked. Of course, what we've now seen is that there are KEY manufacturing activities that really shouldn't be sold or offshore'd. NOTE: in NO way am I anti-worker (completely the opposite).

The US's main product is the USD. The financialization of the economy/country [again, US-centric] started once the USD was decoupled from gold; it then started gaining traction in the early 80s (big neoliberal push via Reagan and Thatcher).

China's cheap stuff is like junk mail. It helps subsidize transportation costs for higher value things. In the US road taxes from POVs does this for trucking (yes, trucking pays a lot in taxes, but w/o POVs it would be astronomically higher). We are, therefore, pretty much a junk economy (not to be confused with actual recyclable "junk," which has value)...
So we moved manufacturing offshore and the companies folded anyway. I don't care about the investors, but I'm all in on the etc. Those were the workers and the suppliers who made the company go. Once upon a time, a company was run by experts in the field. Shoe guys ran shoe companies, tire guys ran tire companies, and electronics guys ran electronics companies. Then Harvard invented a thing called an MBA, and taught their graduates that ethics, citizenship, and responsibility had no place in running a company. In most cases the American company was profitable, but if they offshored the manufacturing they could be more profitable. As little as a 2% difference in the bottom line could spell the death of the American workforce.

Privately held corporations were prey to vulture capitalists. Take the example of Seely Mattresses, a tried and true, permanently profitable company that was bought out by vulture money. Then they borrowed against the company's future earnings to pay for the purchase price, and sold the company again, this time for a profit. The next vultures did it again, this time piling up debt that was impossible to service, but getting away with the money. Then they declared bankruptcy and sold off the machinery and trademarks to Mexico, where all Simmons mattresses are made today. BTW, the money went to the Caymans, where they could evade taxes on it.

In many, many cases, the destruction of the US manufacturing sector was intentional. Never trust a bean counter, because they won't let something like loyalty, tradition, or patriotism get between them and that extra nickel.
 
   / Hydrogen infrastructure #130  
I was gonna give you a good post but it's better than good....it's true.

Quick story, sounds like BS but, it's true.

I repped an privately owned Italian co in the technology business. they happened to use a bunch of aluminum panels, specially prepared and machined etc. The panels were on back order and i was upset and asked the owner where they got them.

He and i became very friendly.

He bought the aluminum and anything else he could from Italian vendors, much more expensive than off shore and since the entire country was on vacation, back order till next month.

When i told him i could source the aluminum much cheaper in about 5 different places he just said......

But if i do that amico, my italian brothers will lose their
jobs. Just as simple as that.

You think you ever hear anything like that at the apple share holders meeting?
 
 
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