Hydrostat vs Shuttle

[boostmg]

Hey guys .. I enjoy mechanics ... and i was watching the tail end of a video on a branson tractor, and the owner said he got the shuttle shift b/c he didn't like the idea of the hydrostat using the same hydro fluid as the hydraulics. He admitted he doesn't know if it's a big deal, but he personally like the idea of the shuttle shift better for that reason.

I didn't realize that's how the hydrostat worked, but it makes sense.

So I'm just wondering if that guys concern is a real concern. He was saying the fluid gets hot, etc. In my mind if the hydro fails then also your trans fails. For this reason the shuttle being a separate system does make sense.

So how about it, for reliability does the shuttle offer any more reliability? Or is the HST good to go?

 

[RickB]

Hydro or Shuttle for the long haul?

Long story short, looking at trading our 1999 New Holland TC29 (which has been an amazing tractor and workhorse) in for a 2020 or 2021 tractor of similar size. I'm actively researching and visiting dealerships of all brands to decide which I feel best about going with. The plan, and who knows...

www.tractorbynet.com

21 pages for your entertainment.

 

[DK35vince]

The shuttle transmission also uses the same hydraulic fluid as the hydraulics

 

[ericm979]

The HST models have an additional oil cooler in front of the radiator.

On my 3725H with the non factory rear remote there is an oil line with constant flow in it just past my elbow. When I am working the tractor hard I can feel it get warm but not too hot to touch.

I think the Branson 20 series shuttle uses the manual clutch. The biggest possible maintenance issue would be wearing out the clutch. That will depend on operator skill and what the tractor's used for. The HSTs seem pretty bulletproof, I've not heard of anyone having a problem with them.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

The shuttle transmission also uses the same hydraulic fluid as the hydraulics

Yes, but not hydraulic pressure to run the transmission, only to lubricate the gears.

HST tractors loose 2-4 PTO HP due to parasitic loss from the HST

 

[boostmg]

I read through that entire thread and watched some comparison videos.

The branson Shuttle shift still has low, medium, and high right?

Because i previously thought the shuttle would give me more gears, but it seems like the biggest difference is just the way you move forward or backwards ... clutch + column shifter vs front and back pedal.

 

[ptsg]

Yes the Shuttle still has the three ranges plus the 4 main gears. Making it a 12x12 transmission.

The 2021 models, like the 3620, 4820 and 5520 have a 4 range synchronized transmission plus the 4 main gears, also synchronized. Making it a 16x16 transmission.

Yes, you still need to use the clutch to go back and forth and to change gears but once you get used to it, it's such a natural movement, you barely notice it.

 

[boostmg]

ok i didn't realize it had the 3 ranges + 4 main gears ... that makes sense.

i wonder if i would be one of the people that gets the HST and then wishes i had more fine tuning ability with the shuttle.

 

[Birdhunter1]

There is 50+ years worth of equipment with hydrostatic transmissions and shuttle shifts transmissions. Both are great, each has a purpose it is better suited for, get the one you want, keep good fluid in it and enjoy.

 

[LouNY]

ok i didn't realize it had the 3 ranges + 4 main gears ... that makes sense.

i wonder if i would be one of the people that gets the HST and then wishes i had more fine tuning ability with the shuttle.

I'm lost following this;
The shuttle is a manual transmission with a range transmission and a main transmission yielding 12 or 16 gears.
The HST is a hydrostactic transmission with either a 3 or 4 speed range transmission being feed from the hydrostatic unit which is an infinity variable transmission. With the variable transmission you have an unlimited amount of "gears", with the pedal just barely depressed the tractor would be just barely moving kind of a first gear, as you continue to depress the pedal your tractor should go faster, halfway down you should be in about your middle "gear" call it 5th, as you continue to depress the pedal when you reach the maximum travel you are now in high "gear" call it 10th,.
For simplicity do not use linked throttle but advance your hand throttle to say an indicated 2000 engine rpm;
start depressing the forward pedal just a bit and the tractor will move slowly,
depress the pedal a bit more and the tractor will go faster with no change of engine rpm,
continue depressing the pedal and the tractor will behave as a higher gear the further the pedal is depressed.
Releasing the pedal and allowing it to return slightly will return you to a lower "gear" your tractor will go slower,
all of this will occur without changing engine rpm or the hand throttle position.
This will happen in every range untill your "gear" selection with your pedal is to high of a "gear" for your horsepower.

I see many questions on the operation of the hydro's especially with the linked throttle were people tend to think they can drive them like a car with an automatic transmission and they will try and shove the foot pedal to the floor thinking it will give them the maximum power and it will not as it is actually the highest "gearing" the transmission has, whereas backing of the foot pedal and advancing the hand throttle will provide a much better response.

 

[crashz]

Age old question. If you want to get the group further excited, ask if you need a diesel pickup to tow with, and which brand to pick.

If I were you, I would let your main chores dictate the transmission type, not perception of durability. The best transmission for the job will be the one that helps you get them done efficiently. A majority of tractor owners feel that loader and fine work are really best suited for HST transmissions. Shuttles and manual shift transmissions shine when pulling long continuous runs when ground engaging (plows) or when heavy PTO demands (mowing, tilling, etc) are placed on the tractors.

I love my HST trans in the Kubota, but my old John Deere with crash box trans would really get the power to the mowers. The two have similar flywheel power (24HP) but the John Deere never felt underpowered, nor did I need to back off the speed when mowing. Same brush hog mower used on both.

 

[Blue Mule]

I'm the guy who started that 20+ page thread and after a couple of months with a hydro tractor I can say there is NO turning back. It's hard to explain, but all I can say is that living with the hydro trans day to day makes the tractor SOOOOOO much easier, faster, and more convenient. Even simple tasks like hopping off for 10 seconds to close the farm gate behind me are faster and don't even require a switch to neutral or setting the brake. It also makes finesse work safer and easier....like last night when we were using my tractor to swap out the wheels and tires on my neighbor's Deere 5075 and we needed to inch them into position to bolt the wheels to the hub. The hydro wasn't jerky or lurchy...it just plain worked.

Hydro is the way to go if your tractor is going to be a multi-task tool around a property.

 

[ericm979]

I agree but I would set the brake when you get off to close the gate. Sometimes HSTs creep a little, either because the pedals are not quite in neutral, or are a bit out of adjustment, or the tractor is on a slope.

 

[Cougsfan]

As far as reliability goes, either one should be OK. How each uses the hydraulic fluid should be a non-factor in the concerns of the average user. Usually something else on the tractor fails with age and use before the transmission does.
It is all a matter of preference. HSTs tend to be noisier, but easier to use for most people. About the only advantage I see of a shuttle is that a given rpm in a given gear will give a given ground speed. That is handy when doing things like spraying with a boom, but in reality is just a minor advantage. Some people claim that shuttles give better fuel economy. That may be true but again, the difference is negligible.
Lou is correct in that some people don't know how to use a HST. They push on the HST pedal as if it were a throttle, and it isn't. Every once in a while you see a thread where a new HST owner complains about the operation of the HST when it doesn't react the way they expect when they stomp on the pedal.

 

[JM7500]

I agree with crashz. Determine what and how you will use the tractor. Then test drive both. I went with the 4820R with a 16x16 shuttle. I will be bushhogging a lot. For the other tasks I've used the loader for, clutching and shifting the direction lever was not an issue. The tractor can be slowly inched (more like 2 inched?) in range A and 1st gear, but never ride the clutch.

I just wish I could get a new truck with a manual transmission!