Hydrostatic vs Non

[dave1949]

I didn't argue at all, I just said that many people with a lot more experience than I have say otherwise. Seriously, a $15 filter every year or two is a factor worth even thinking about? I don't know about all brands, but my HST doesn't require extra fuel to be burned, it just requires that you don't lug the engine...don't do that (which is bad anyway) and the HST doesn't whine at a level almost anybody would complain about. Heck, gear transmissions make noise too, so it's not exactly all or nothing.

You are right about helping the OP, and that's what I was trying to do. I have both gear and HST, and like both, so I'm not against either kind. Some references for what I was referring to...a bunch of folks with a ton of experience (certainly more than me):

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ssion-vs-hst-transmissions-3.html#post3419997

Been working on tractors for 34 years and I sold tractors for 7 years in New England and in this area of the country Hydro rules. We very reluctantly took gear tractors in trade as they would become lawn ornaments, had to pretty much give them away. The hydro's are pretty bullet proof, never had to repair one.


I noted popularity and resale in my first post, #8. So you want to tell me something I've already said?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ssion-vs-hst-transmissions-9.html#post3425457



Kind of back to the original question - the gear transmission is easier to work on. Have had brother-in-law's gear drive Kubota apart multiple times to replace broken parts - no gears yet, just shift linkage pieces breaking - and 2 guys can have it pretty well completely lying on the floor in a couple hours. Finding where the broken pieces end up is the biggest time killer. Have not yet had to tear into our hydros. Unless you feather the lurch (wear), the loading is abrupt whereas the hydro takes time for the swash plate to move so the load on the power train is automatically feathered.


This is not informative except either: bad BIL who cannot operate a clutch properly, or is power shifting the tractor, or bad parts.


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ssion-vs-hst-transmissions-9.html#post3425684

I've been following TBN threads since 2001 and there just isn't any significant number of HST transmission failures. There was an L48 that had a bad control valve recently but the actual hydro pump/motor package was apparently OK. I figure keeping the hyd fluid full, fresh and clean is job #1, probably next is avoiding overheating from using it in an abusive manner.

There are a lot of hydrostatic systems in equipment these days... powersteering, drivetrains on combines, payloaders, the list goes on and on. Hydro was newfangled technology in the 1960's but today it's totally mainstream and very reliable. As a drivetrain, it's one choice available, has its good and bad points. Reliability is actually more a strong point in its favor.


Anything abused will break, gear or HST. The poster notes good points and bad points.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...sion-vs-hst-transmissions-11.html#post3448882

My tractor score is now 11 HSTs and 5 gear-drive units, 4 purchased new. I wrenched on all of them, including clutch replacements and HST rebuilds. For my use here in the mtns, I prefer HSTs by far, but I do not plow fields.

To the OP's question, I am very confident that HSTs are very reliable, and potentially more reliable
than foot-operated dry clutch gear tractors.

This poster has fixed both gear and HST but likes the potential of HST and the safety in the mountains/hilly terrain.

I don't see any evidence there that HST units are less to maintain or less prone to break. It wouldn't be a real big worry to me, and the OP may not even get a choice depending on his other selection criteria.

I have seen two posts recently in the NH area about probable clutch issues. The posters did not read their manual, and did not seem to be aware that clutch adjustment is routine maintenance. I don't know how well they would fair on any kind of tractor. It's difficult to separate the mechanical aspects from the art of using a clutch well.

A recent poster in the NH area asked what the purpose of the three filters (beyond the main hydraulic filter) on his hydro unit could be that he needs to either clean or replace.

I just hope Hiker88 can have the tractor he wants while keeping his Dad reasonably happy and avoiding any "I told you so" recriminations. Who knows, maybe his Dad will grow to appreciate an HST?

 

[GManBart]

Why is HST not good for steep hills? I actually purchased HST specifically because I have steep hills. Increased weight, increased speed control, it always remains "in gear" and never "free-wheels".

I'm not even remotely an expert on the topic, and I'm not sure if it's specific to any make/model tractor, but at steep angles, it's possible to starve the pump of fluid in HST systems. As I recall, that can cause damage, can get you stuck, or lead to a dangerous situation where you're suddenly freewheeling. There was a better discussion of it in the thread linked on the first page here.

 

[GManBart]

I just hope Hiker88 can have the tractor he wants while keeping his Dad reasonably happy and avoiding any "I told you so" recriminations. Who knows, maybe his Dad will grow to appreciate an HST?

Me too!

Anything is possible. My neighbor is an old-school guy who really only likes antique tractors, and wants everything gear so he can work on it himself. I think he could work on an HST unit just fine (he just built an airplane from nothing but plans!), but he's skeptical. We've done a bunch of things together, and now he's starting to say "bring the hydrostat, it'll be better" when he asks me to help him....not always, but sometimes!

 

[TripleR]

I usually recommend renting something as close as possible to what you are going to buy for a day or two to get a real feel for it, often tooling around on the lot doesn't give you the full effect. A tractor also tends to "shrink" once you have it on your property a bit, one of my favorite tractors was one I initially discounted as too big with more power than needed.

I was initially underwhelmed with my Kubota L5740 from driving it on the lot, been running it over a year and couldn't have picked a better tractor my needs.

I grew up driving geared tractors 10+ hours a day and still have and use one, but when practical though, I will get in the HST.

 

[Grandad4]

...I know someone who is really down on hydrostatic transmissions and just wondering if there is any truth at all to it...

You know what they say about first impressions. Anyone who was around farm equipment in the 1960's got a first impression of hydrostatic drives from a new model introduced by International Harvester that was the first farm tractor with HST. It was an otherwise beautiful unit of 100+ hp, but the HST was not up to the demand of heavy tillage farming and gave many owners trouble. Most farmers I have known have very long memories, and are not easily persuaded to change an opinion. 99% of the time, those are very admirable traits, of course.

The experience many people have had with hydrostatic drives on lawn tractors hasn't helped either.

But many of those folks don't know that the hydrostat has matured a lot and is now widely used in large farm equipment such as combines and in heavy industrial equipment such as Caterpillar track loaders. And it's great technology for small (under 75 hp) tractors.

Of course there's nothing wrong with straight drive setups either. I have both kinds and don't mind working with either. The HST would be my preference because it's more convenient... at my point in life that means a lot.

 

[murphy1244]

This is the same thing as Solid Lifters against Hydraulic lifters back in the day as Hydraulics were prone to collapse.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I love my shuttle shift, gear driven tractor. I always have the power where I want it. Now for a mower, that's different, I would do hst.

 

[dave1949]

This is the same thing as Solid Lifters against Hydraulic lifters back in the day as Hydraulics were prone to collapse.

I never thought about it, but you are right. Hydraulic lifters are another example of power-wasting oil squishers. :laughing: When is the last time you replaced a leaky or lazy solid lifter?

Seriously and joking aside, out of curiosity, I read this article:
Dyno Shootout: Solid Roller Vs. Hydraulic Roller | StangTV

Not sure about the validity/fairness of the cam choices used in the test, but solid lifters won by a hair.

I did see many performance after-market hyd. lifter sets advertised so I will assume they have become the norm.

 

[lutt]

In my 41 years growing up on a farm and still working on a rather large row crop operation, I have never seen hydrostatic transmission equipped equipment fail, not saying it won't , because any thing can. Reliable, I think so, are they for everyone with a small tractor, probly not. I love mine on my 4200 Deere. For loader work and mowing it is great. I even disk food plots with it. Really shines doing box blade work also, maintence costs are arguable, to me, it isn't a issue. It wouldn't matter what brand I would have bought, it would have had a HST. My next tractor will be the largest available with it also. LUTT

 

[paulharvey]

The problem with the whole hydro vs gear argument is hydro vs what gear type. Power Shuttle has all the advantages of gear and tge advantages of HST, but is nearly as much money as HST, and seems to be limited to ~35+hp tractors. When people say hydro only.for loader, they often are thinking that the only gear tractors are the plain "clutch and hunt for gear" types.