Hydrostatic vs shuttle shift

[Aquabird]

Never used a shuttle shift. My 1st tractor, in 1991 was a hydrostatic drive. I primarily mowed with it, no problems. My new tractor, now 3 yrs old, is the same drive, zero problems. I thank the O.P. for posting this and thanks to Scotty, I now know my unit has a hydro cooler.

 

[JRTJH]

I've got a Hydro, used to have a shuttle shift, will NEVER go back. At 78, my knees, leaning forward and shifting between F/R is a hassle. Much easier to just move my toes with my heel planted on the rubber deck. Maybe I'm lazy, but ..... My tractor is 14 years old, I've never had any issue with the hydro, but I do keep up with filter replacement and hydraulic fluid changes as recommended. It's not that the tractor is "finicky" rather that I don't want to "introduce problems by skipping maintenance". So far, almost 900 hours and it's never been back to the dealer for anything but a tire change.

Also, something I have not seen (maybe I missed it) is that some 3 point implements don't work well with a shuttle shift. I recently bought a MechMaxx stump grinder. They recommend "hydro drive only" in their sales information. After grinding 45 or 50 stumps last year after our ice storm, I can readily confirm that if you're using a 3 point implement that requires an extremely slow forward speed (like around 12" per minute) like that stump grinder, trying that with a shuttle shift, well, that wouldn't be much fun.

You may never need that kind of slow speed, but if buying a new tractor, shuttle vs hydro, all things being equal, why limit one of the tractor's capabilities ??? YMMV

 

[TORQUIN]

What I have to say about it is, I am quite happy with my GST transmission. This Kubota tranny is essentially a synchronized transmission with an automatic clutch, and auto-ranging. It has a shuttle shift also. That means I can change gears at any time, any speed, with or without a clutch, and I can go from 1st to 12th if I want to and the tractor handles everything with no grinding. 12 forward speeds and 8 reverse. Very happy with it because I don't lose any HP to the transmission. However, when going back and forth a lot, it is not as convenient as the HST.

Chris

 

[broadsword6]

We have 100 acres of specialty hay crop, pasture and about 10 acres of maple bush to look after here in Eastern Ontario; oh, and 600m of driveway. We have owned five different tractors, three with HST and two gear/shuttle shift. The field/utility tractor is a cabbed 66hp Branson with gear drive and the small utility tractor has tended to be 35 -45 hp NH Boomer 45hp or Branson 35hp. Both tractors are now Branson gear/shuttle drive. I am 66yo and ex Infantry (28 years) so I have all the legacy injuries that go with jumping out of airplanes and chasing bad guys around.

I am puzzled by a couple of things in this conversation; first the idea that HST is better if one has injuries to contend with, and secondly the need for rapid direction and speed change.
Having had both HST and Shuttle on a variety of platforms, admittedly with functioning cruise controls, I found that it was not so much the foot controls that dictated operator comfort, but the general layout of the operator station (the human factors engineering). It seemed to me that no matter the transmission operating system, the operator HF is the driving factor to comfort. A lot of our tasks require us to look over our shoulders at the implement. Some operator stations enable that with ease while others are badly laid out and cause ones knees or elbows to come in contact with controls they should not contact while doing that. Knees on the steering column while checking the snow blower is a common one I have found.

The second puzzler is the need to switch direction (forward to backwards) quickly. We did a lot of earthmoving over the years while rebuilding our farm following a serious house fire. While I loved the hi/lo button on the loader stick on the NH45, it was only marginally more efficient than switching range and shuttle direction on the Branson 35 loader tractor we have now. I think for most of us, seat time is relaxing and contemplative. As a practicing engineer I have solved some of the knottiest problems while getting seat time. I even sketched out the structure for a book on the inside of the cab window with a grease pencil once! My point is that if we seek the peace of doing our chores with a tractor, why are we in such a hurry? Reducing revs to change the shuttle introduces a comforting rhythm to the work in my experience. If I want frenetic driving I will go to the city.

Finally, I notice that there is little mention of the power penalty for HST. While it is improving all the time, HST transmissions still typically deliver 15%-18% less power to the ground for the same engine HP. In a lot of cases this is not a significant drawback, but on our farm where the equipment must move commercial square bales, grade the driveway, blow the snow, mow the pastures, operate a timber winch and a 7" wood chipper, it is. The Branson 66 shuttle will do all that no problem; the Branson 35ih (HST) would not. We switched the 35ih for a new 35 gear drive and the difference was night and day. Both tactors can now do all the work (apart from chipping) so in effect we almost doubled our work force.

IMHO, and largely in agreement with the much more experienced voices on this forum, choose the tractor that suits the purpose but pay particular attention to how the operator station is laid out. Turn around in the seat and see what your elbows and knees bang into. Try and operate the draft controls in that position. Try and keep contact with the HST pedals or reach and operate the clutch. The power penalty only really matters for some. In our case it really mattered. In yours it might not.

Hope that was useful

 

[racerric]

I bought and enjoyed a shuttle shift 38hp tractor 19 yrs ago, but I'm 78 and thinking I'd like to end my days with a new tractor. Most now seem to be hydrostatic. I just talked with my brother-in-law who has both transmissions and he recommended staying with shuttle shift. I do some mowing and he says his hydrostatic gets way too hot when mowing. He likes it when doing dirt work and moving hay, etc. but not for something where you'll be driving it steady for a long time. It seems the dealers around here are mostly pushing hydrostatic. What's your experience?

I am 74 and have a E-Hydrostatic JD 3520 and love it. Even my wife can use it. Use it for property work in summer and plow & snow blow in winter. With a cab with AC and heat....awesome.

 

[JimR]

I am a 66 year old homeowner with 34 acres. I mow about 109 acres, some with a bush-hog. I agree that overheating is a sign that I need

to buy a bigger tractor. I over-heated my BX24 while mowing, to the point that the power steering line melted a hole in my plastic fuel tank and damaged the hst valve blocks! First problem was that I needed a bush-hog but was using a belly mower. I have a bush-hog now, but still run hotter than I like. Second is that I need a larger tractor! I love my BX, but I need to buy a bigger machine this year.

Sounds like my old neighbor when he was trying to mow 12-24" field grass with his JD 430 diesel lawnmower with a 60" deck. He wondered why he was having so many problems. I asked him if he would pull his 4 horse trailer with his Cadillac CTS. He was like, are you crazy. I didn't need to say anything else.

 

[mikester]

Why do you say a hydrostatic transmission has to be run at full engine RPMs?

To clarify:
General rule-of-thumb if you have DPF you are better running your machine at higher RPMs, avoid lugging the engine, match your RPM's to work done i.e. when I'm running the snowblower or mower I set the RPM's for 540PTO speed and turn off auto-throttle.

If I'm just driving around the yard I tend to use auto-throttle. If I'm doing heavy loader/backhoe work and fast response times are required I use higher RPMs.

M59 gives you extra features like stall-guard and auto-throttle so you can fudge needing to adjust the throttle. More basic HST machines rely on the operator to adjust the throttle and higher RPMs means more power to the wheels and more responsive controls. At low RPMs you risk lugging the engine.

If you really want to have fun, some HST dozers give you a hand throttle to set at high RPM for work and a foot decelerator pedal if you need to slow down.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

one comment on the subject. for those who use Utility sized tractors, nearly all are geared (w/hyd or shuttle shift). hydro is rarely seen on larger utility machines for good reason, regards

Yep, but not many new utilities have only 38 HP ... Like the OP has, however they didn't say if they were looking to stay the same size, or bigger or smaller?

 

[jyoutz]

We have 100 acres of specialty hay crop, pasture and about 10 acres of maple bush to look after here in Eastern Ontario; oh, and 600m of driveway. We have owned five different tractors, three with HST and two gear/shuttle shift. The field/utility tractor is a cabbed 66hp Branson with gear drive and the small utility tractor has tended to be 35 -45 hp NH Boomer 45hp or Branson 35hp. Both tractors are now Branson gear/shuttle drive. I am 66yo and ex Infantry (28 years) so I have all the legacy injuries that go with jumping out of airplanes and chasing bad guys around.

I am puzzled by a couple of things in this conversation; first the idea that HST is better if one has injuries to contend with, and secondly the need for rapid direction and speed change.
Having had both HST and Shuttle on a variety of platforms, admittedly with functioning cruise controls, I found that it was not so much the foot controls that dictated operator comfort, but the general layout of the operator station (the human factors engineering). It seemed to me that no matter the transmission operating system, the operator HF is the driving factor to comfort. A lot of our tasks require us to look over our shoulders at the implement. Some operator stations enable that with ease while others are badly laid out and cause ones knees or elbows to come in contact with controls they should not contact while doing that. Knees on the steering column while checking the snow blower is a common one I have found.

The second puzzler is the need to switch direction (forward to backwards) quickly. We did a lot of earthmoving over the years while rebuilding our farm following a serious house fire. While I loved the hi/lo button on the loader stick on the NH45, it was only marginally more efficient than switching range and shuttle direction on the Branson 35 loader tractor we have now. I think for most of us, seat time is relaxing and contemplative. As a practicing engineer I have solved some of the knottiest problems while getting seat time. I even sketched out the structure for a book on the inside of the cab window with a grease pencil once! My point is that if we seek the peace of doing our chores with a tractor, why are we in such a hurry? Reducing revs to change the shuttle introduces a comforting rhythm to the work in my experience. If I want frenetic driving I will go to the city.

Finally, I notice that there is little mention of the power penalty for HST. While it is improving all the time, HST transmissions still typically deliver 15%-18% less power to the ground for the same engine HP. In a lot of cases this is not a significant drawback, but on our farm where the equipment must move commercial square bales, grade the driveway, blow the snow, mow the pastures, operate a timber winch and a 7" wood chipper, it is. The Branson 66 shuttle will do all that no problem; the Branson 35ih (HST) would not. We switched the 35ih for a new 35 gear drive and the difference was night and day. Both tactors can now do all the work (apart from chipping) so in effect we almost doubled our work force.

IMHO, and largely in agreement with the much more experienced voices on this forum, choose the tractor that suits the purpose but pay particular attention to how the operator station is laid out. Turn around in the seat and see what your elbows and knees bang into. Try and operate the draft controls in that position. Try and keep contact with the HST pedals or reach and operate the clutch. The power penalty only really matters for some. In our case it really mattered. In yours it might not.

Hope that was useful

The pto power loss from HST isn’t really an issue if you buy the right size and HP machine. My tractor still delivers 50+ pto hp even with HST.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Exactly!

If you need "X" amount of PTO HP, then buy a tractor with at least that much PTO HP ... Will you burn a couple more drops of diesel, probably, but cheaper than knee surgery!

 

[big bubba]

I am a 66 year old homeowner with 34 acres. I mow about 109 acres, some with a bush-hog. I agree that overheating is a sign that I need

to buy a bigger tractor. I over-heated my BX24 while mowing, to the point that the power steering line melted a hole in my plastic fuel tank and damaged the hst valve blocks! First problem was that I needed a bush-hog but was using a belly mower. I have a bush-hog now, but still run hotter than I like. Second is that I need a larger tractor! I love my BX, but I need to buy a bigger machine this year.

this is a good way of looking at your situation, and in time i'll bet you make the right choices. you are doing yourself and BX a favor for recognizing each machine has it's advantages and limits. regards

 

[Tkekic]

I bought and enjoyed a shuttle shift 38hp tractor 19 yrs ago, but I'm 78 and thinking I'd like to end my days with a new tractor. Most now seem to be hydrostatic. I just talked with my brother-in-law who has both transmissions and he recommended staying with shuttle shift. I do some mowing and he says his hydrostatic gets way too hot when mowing. He likes it when doing dirt work and moving hay, etc. but not for something where you'll be driving it steady for a long time. It seems the dealers around here are mostly pushing hydrostatic. What's your experience?

I have one of each. My newer one is a Kioti NS 6010 Hydro. My M7060 Kubots is a shuttle. I wanted the new one to be a shuttle but could not find what I needed in a pre tariff tractor. I too am concerned how the hydro will do hay raking or brush hogging. The Kubota does either like a champ. The hydro is great for loader work or snow plowing so far.