Hypro Roller Pumps

Pooh_Bear · Jun 21, 2006

I have been looking at Hypro Roller Pumps on Ebay.
Seems I can get one for cheap there.

The Sequatchie River forms the Eastern border of our property.
I would like to pump water from the river up to the house.
Mostly to water the garden and some trees and fill a small pool.
I have enough pipe to go to the river. 500 feet.
And I have a big electric pump. But no power at the river.
Could I use a Hypro pump for this. How much suction does one have.
I can get within 15 feet of the water with about 3 to 4 feet elevation.
Will a hypro pump suck water that far. Then push it another 20 feet vertically.
My only other options are an expensive generator or expensive wiring to go that far.
Those aren't really options for me.

My electric pump is 220v and pulls 9 amps. Distance from house is 500 feet.
What would that be, #6 AWG wire? How about 2 runs of 12-2/w ground.
I could parellel the black wires and the white wires and the neutral wires.
Would that work to run the pump. I got plenty of 12-2 romex laying around.

Any other ideas. Doesn't have to meet code. Just has to work.
I can't leave the pump down at the river permanently. It would get stolen.
So this will be one of those deals where I plug it up and run it,
then unhook it and bring the pump back to the shed till it is needed again.

If a Hypro water pump would work for this that would simplify matters greatly.

Thanks.

Pooh Bear

DavidPerry · Jun 21, 2006

Are you talking about a pto driven roller pump vs an electrical centrifugal pump?

Here is a manual on hypro roller pumps.

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/content/attach_files/Roller_Pumps_Hypro.pdf

I believe a roller pump will pull up to 11' suction. 3' should be safe. You could always put a back flow preventer in the line to make certain it did not loose suction.

Pooh_Bear · Jun 21, 2006

Yes, I'm thinking of a PTO driven pump.
I could bury pipe down to the river.
Then just drive the tractor down there when I need water.
Hook it up and let it sit for about 30 minutes or so.
Fill up a resevoir or storage tanks or my pool.
Then unhook it and bring the tractor home.

I'll check out the link you provided.

Thanks.

Pooh Bear

chadincolo · Jun 22, 2006

I'm pretty sure a roller pump won't pull a suction, it will need to be primed, and I don't know how much it will pull for elevation. As far as pushing water 500 feet, 20 feet elevation change, depends on the size of the pipe, but it shouldn't be a problem. Other option is, find a PTO driven irrigation pump. Usually mounted on a trailer with a long tongue, back into the water, turn on the PTO and there you go.

As a side note, do you have water rights? Are you legally able to pull water out of that river? Here in Colorado (I know it varies by state), if you don't own the water rights (bordering the river or not makes no difference, water rights are separate from access rights) and start pulling, you are in for one hell of a big fight...

sandman2234 · Jun 22, 2006

One of the guys I work with built a pump similar to what Chadincolo discribed.
He said it would move many,many gallons per minute. They used it to drain ponds so they could enlarge them, or just clean them out. Mounted on a two wheeled trailer with a long tongue, long pto shaft.
David from jax

DavidPerry · Jun 22, 2006

It does not take a very large centrifugal pump to move 300 gpm. The ones I've seen trailer mounted were much larger. A centrifugal pump is not self priming.

http://www.gatorpump.com/products.htm

DavidPerry · Jun 22, 2006

It does not take a very large centrifugal pump to move 300 gpm. The ones I've seen trailer mounted were much larger. A centrifugal pump is not self priming.

http://www.gatorpump.com/products.htm

DavidPerry · Jun 22, 2006

Types of Pumps

A pump is either a positive displacement or nonpositive displacement type. A positive displacement pump discharges a specific volume of liquid with each stroke or revolution. A pressure-relief valve or pressure control device must be used to by-pass liquid not being used in the spray operation back to the supply tank. A positive displacement pump also draws a low vacuum and, therefore, does not require filling the pump or placing it below the tank level to prime it. Piston, gear, and roller type pumps are positive displacement pumps.

http://www.abe.iastate.edu/machinery/pm1101b.asp

Pooh_Bear · Jun 23, 2006

Water rights are not an issue around here.

Today I set up a very small electric pump and used it to pump water.
Similar to this pump:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1479

I set it up at the river and ran it off an inverter connected to the tractor.
Getting the pump primed was extremely hard to do.
And this was not in the least bit conveniant to do.

I like the long trailer idea. Mount a pump and back it into the river.
That sounds real interesting. Have to give that idea some thought.

I have a huge sump pump. But no way to get electric that far.
My pump is the 4290. Paid $20 for it out the classifieds.
http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/products/agricultural/agricultural.htm
Just can't afford to run electric wire that far.

Pooh Bear

DavidPerry · Jun 23, 2006

If you plan on a centrifugal pump on a trailer, remember the impellers should be turning around 4500 rpm ( check with the vendor ) so you will need to step up from the pto speed.

A roller pump is targetted for low flow, usually under 20 gpm, and mid - high pressure up to 150 psi. At .4 psi / ft of elevation you could push a small amount of water around 75 ft.

PineRidge · Jun 23, 2006

Pooh_Bear said:
Water rights are not an issue around here.

Today I set up a very small electric pump and used it to pump water.
Similar to this pump:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1479

I set it up at the river and ran it off an inverter connected to the tractor.
Getting the pump primed was extremely hard to do.
And this was not in the least bit conveniant to do.

I like the long trailer idea. Mount a pump and back it into the river.
That sounds real interesting. Have to give that idea some thought.

I have a huge sump pump. But no way to get electric that far.
My pump is the 4290. Paid $20 for it out the classifieds.
http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/products/agricultural/agricultural.htm
Just can't afford to run electric wire that far.

Pooh Bear

Bear even if you wanted to power the pump electrically you would need to take into consideration voltage loss on a long wire run and size the wire accordingly. Copper wire gets real expensive these days. I have never liked the water/electric scenario, especially if I'm standing in it.

My vote is for a PTO powered pump. You already have the tractor, make it work for it's keep.

sandman2234 · Jun 24, 2006

I was wondering why not take an existing pump, maybe one that the electric motor burnt up on, and power it from the pto of the tractor. As David mentioned, the pump would need to be turning several times faster than the 540 or 1000 rpm of the PTO. Although DavidPerry seems a lot more familiar with pumps than I ever will be, I question the 4500 rpm number he mentioned as being required. Most electric pump motors are turning 3450 if I recall right.
If you adapt an old motor, and overdrive it with the PTO, make sure the bearings are there to hold the shaft. Most pumps I have seen use the bearings in the motor to hold the impeller in the correct position.
Keep us informed, and with plenty of pictures!
David from jax

Pooh_Bear · Jun 25, 2006

The little pump I ran off the inverter was directly driven by a 1725 rpm motor.
Maybe I could take the fan off the other end and replace it with a pulley.

The annual 127 yard sale is comming up.
Maybe I can find a pump then.

Pooh Bear

dieselsmoke1 · Jun 25, 2006

I'd be skeptical regarding a roller pump being a good long term solution for a couple of reasons. Ones I have used in the past were high presssure low volume, and it took lots of rpm's to get much of a flow. I would prefer not to tach the tractor up to 2k or so, without a load on the engine, and leave it there for an hour just to emulate a garden hose. That being said, I have used tractors as a power source for pto powered irrigation pumps for hundreds of hours, just seems not as evil if there is a load on the engine and much work is accomplished.

When new out of the box, a roller pump "may" have the lift you specified, however put a few hours on it and it's a certainty this function will cease to work. Have a squirt bottle of 90wt oil available to help seal the rollers.

They make realitively good inexpensive spray pumps and are much cheaper than gear pumps. Not much value as a transfer pump.

I will qualify this by saying "maybe" there's a model of roller pump designed for transfer, I can't say.

Pooh_Bear · Jun 25, 2006

I haven't ruled out the possibility of just building my own pump.
I'm a firm believer in the power of red neck engineering.
I have been considering a slow speed piston pump.
Also a home made centrifugal pump.
And a home brew design using a boat motor propeller.

I could use a waterwheel to power a slow speed piston pump.
I don't need pressure. I just need volume.
Fill a swimming pool and then for other water needs pump from there.
A waterwheel pump would pump 24/7 at no cost.
There is an important piece of engineering data that I need to do this.
And I can't find it anywhere. I understand head and Q just fine.
But on a level surface of water (0 ft head) with a water velocity v,
what is the force against a surface (paddle) perpendicular to the water flow.
Anyone happen to know that little piece of info?

A home made centrifugal pump is a straight forward design.
No explanation necessary there.

Take a boat propeller and mount it inside a pipe.
Submerge it and drive it at a fast speed to generate thrust.
That should push water up the pipe. Power that off the PTO.

All just ideas. I'm open to others.

Pooh Bear

DavidPerry · Jun 27, 2006

Check into a 'ram pump'. It uses energy from a flowing stream to pump great heights. Depending on the flow, it can pump many GPM.

http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/Equip/ram.htm

http://www.lifewater.ca/ram_pump.htm

Hydraulic ram pumps are a time-tested technology that use the energy of a large amount of water falling a small height to lift a small amount of that water to a much greater height. In this way, water from a spring or stream in a valley can be pumped to a village or irrigation scheme on the hillside.

Depending on the difference in heights between the inlet pipe and the outlet pipe, these water pumps will lift 1-20 percent of the water that flows into it. In general, a ram can pump approximately one tenth of the received water volume to a height ten times greater than the intake. A hydraulic ram pump is useful where the water source flows constantly and the usable fall from the water source to the pump location is at least 91 cm (3 ft).

Pooh_Bear · Jun 27, 2006

Our river is too flat to run a RAM pump.

I took the fan off my little electric pump today.
I can mount a pulley in its place.
Then drive it off the tractor PTO.
Or find a small side shaft gas motor and run it off of that.

I'll get pictures of the setup when I am done.

Pooh Bear

dieselsmoke1 · Jun 28, 2006

Have you considered a small gas powered transfer pump? Northern has a couple for $250. Just a suggestion.

jenniferrodriquez · Jan 18, 2009

Pooh_Bear said:
I have been looking at Hypro Roller Pumps on Ebay.
Seems I can get one for cheap there.

The Sequatchie River forms the Eastern border of our property.
I would like to pump water from the river up to the house.
Mostly to water the garden and some trees and fill a small pool.
I have enough pipe to go to the river. 500 feet.
And I have a big electric pump. But no power at the river.
Could I use a Hypro pump for this. How much suction does one have.
I can get within 15 feet of the water with about 3 to 4 feet elevation.
Will a hypro pump suck water that far. Then push it another 20 feet vertically.
My only other options are an expensive generator or expensive wiring to go that far.
Those aren't really options for me.

My electric pump is 220v and pulls 9 amps. Distance from house is 500 feet.
What would that be, #6 AWG wire? How about 2 runs of 12-2/w ground.
I could parellel the black wires and the white wires and the neutral wires.
Would that work to run the pump. I got plenty of 12-2 romex laying around.

Any other ideas. Doesn't have to meet code. Just has to work.
I can't leave the pump down at the river permanently. It would get stolen.
So this will be one of those deals where I plug it up and run it,
then unhook it and bring the pump back to the shed till it is needed again.

If a Hypro water pump would work for this that would simplify matters greatly.

Thanks.

Pooh Bear

Buying Hypro Roller Pumps on Ebay is not smart. It is not cheap at all. I often buy products from China.

Pooh_Bear · Jan 18, 2009

I decided to just use an electric pump.
I'll either run electric wire or buy a generator.
I'd rather run electric wire but I could use a generator.
I've got time to plan which way to go.
I just recently got the pipe buried down to near the river.

Pooh Bear