I broke the law... a lot!

[BB_TX]

The requirements may be a federal mandate, but they are enforced by state and local laws. Therein lies the problem. The laws will be worded differently in different states and interpreted differently by different officers within each state.

 

[RayH]

Golly RayH, I guess I was just imaginging that ticket? I expect my friends at the commercial scales must have it wrong also. The judge didn't have a clue either.

I stand down. You are correct. It would seem that CA has classified any trailer over 10000lbs that is not for farmer use or a travel trailer as Commercial dispite the weight of the combination.
So let me ask you, If you are driving a 3/4 ton pickup and pulling a 12000lbs trailer, you must have a CDL "A" right? Do you maintain a CDL physical, log book, HOS? Do you have to maintain IFTA and USDot stickers? Is the pickup only considered to be a commercial vehicle when towing the trailer? So if, for instance, your wife or friend drives just the pickup, do they need a CDL? Im assuming not, but Im confused on how a vehicle can flipflop from commercial to non commercial?

 

[Dirthog]

Pickup And trailer yes for a CDL and physical and log book also you may have to pay road use tax (fuel tax) depending on how many miles you drive with the trailer and your combination weight. My understanding is the only time this applies is when the trailer is hooked up even though at least in Pa. the insurance co classifes a one ton pickup a commercial vehicle.

 

[DavesTractor]

I stand down. You are correct. It would seem that CA has classified any trailer over 10000lbs that is not for farmer use or a travel trailer as Commercial dispite the weight of the combination.
So let me ask you, If you are driving a 3/4 ton pickup and pulling a 12000lbs trailer, you must have a CDL "A" right? Do you maintain a CDL physical, log book, HOS? Do you have to maintain IFTA and USDot stickers? Is the pickup only considered to be a commercial vehicle when towing the trailer? So if, for instance, your wife or friend drives just the pickup, do they need a CDL? Im assuming not, but Im confused on how a vehicle can flipflop from commercial to non commercial?

RayH,
California is goofy on this. Yes I have a CDL, medical card, motor carrier numbers, etc. I only deliver locally, so I do not keep a log book, nor do I go through the scales...as it is not required as I have a pickup. I keep the motor carrier numbers on the trailers, not on the truck. The truck by itself does not require a CDL, only when it is hooked to the trailer. I took my CDL test with a one ton pickup and a gooseneck trailer. They didn't bat an eye, it is a common thing here due to the rules. I do not have an air brake endorsement, so my CDL isn't worth much. I will say though, taking the test, learning the rules, getting serious about pre-trip inspections and proper tie downs, etc...it has made me a more careful operator.

 

[Boomerang1]

Each state has the right to set their own MCR as long the regulations are AS strict as the Federal Regulations but never LESS strict than the Federal Regulation. Countries like california tend to go MORE strict. It's their right. I like to stay in my own country.

 

[DavesTractor]

Countries like california tend to go MORE strict. It's their right. I like to stay in my own country.

Now I know California is "special", but it really isn't a country of it's own, despite what Arizonians thinks! But sometimes I do wonder if you are correct!

 

[Chuck_Lind]

This CDL issue has been raised on this site ever since I joined...and I see the same results. Anything over 26,000 lbs (combination truck & trailer) requires a CDL.

I asked the Pennsylvania Dept of Transportation regarding the rules and you know what they wanted to know? My vehicle serial number, license plate number, etc. Now...just what did they plan on using that for?? I wrote back and told them to get lost and perform an honest day's work!!!

 

[Steve_a_reno]

I just went through all this crap and took a drastic measure. Read above post" I almost broke the law.... a lot"

Steve

 

[neverenough]

I will say though, taking the test, learning the rules, getting serious about pre-trip inspections and proper tie downs, etc...it has made me a more careful operator.

That is exactly why I think there should be a special license for pick up trucks.

 

[rback33]

Each state has the right to set their own MCR as long the regulations are AS strict as the Federal Regulations but never LESS strict than the Federal Regulation. Countries like california tend to go MORE strict. It's their right. I like to stay in my own country.

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. Fedlaw States anything 26,001 lbs or heavier is commerical & requires CDL.. 10,001 or heaver is Commercial but does not require CDL license.. this is GCVWR.. truck and trailer combined.. exceptions are enormous... I can email pages outta the Fed book if anyone wants them....

 

[Andy-H]

A friend of mine in CA. Went to the dump with his loaded dump trailer, and on that day the CHP happened to be at the scales writing tickets for over weight loads. His trailer is a 7 x 14 W/ 4ft sides 14k gross weight. They had him weight just the axle part of the trailer it came in at 18,000 lbs. the cop gave him a choice, of his ticket, not having a class "A" license for being over 10k lbs. Or for being over the gross of the trailer. Another thing about CA is that any size pick-up is registered as commerical. Bumper pull travel trailers and fifth wheels camper trailers do not fall under the 10k law.

 

[VistanTN]

After reading this and similar threads, all I can say is "aren't we all glad there are lawyers?" (NOT). The federal regs seem pretty clear and straightforward and most states copy them verbatim BUT they do not interpret them identically. Worse yet, the ultimate test is what the officer with the badge and gun says -- because that's what will affect you TODAY. My Daddy taught me, "Never argue with the man with a hammer." And he meant sledge, framing, 9mm, or .38 caliber.

I think the composite advice is: a) Consult your local DMV AND b) consult the local commercial officer(s).

VistanTN
Who's wondering where the new 2500HD and the Good Wyfe's plan for a gooseneck horse trailer will put us ...

 

[InlineDieselFan]

From the Washington State Department of Licensing:


Types of vehicles requiring a CDL
You must get a commercial driver license (CDL) to operate the following types of vehicles:

All single vehicles with a manufacturer's weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more.
All trailers with a manufacturer's weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more, if the gross weight rating of the combined vehicle(s) is 26,001 pounds or higher.
All vehicles designed to transport 16 or more persons (including the driver).
All vehicles that carry hazardous materials.


Notice the second qualifier, "10,001 pounds or more, IF the gross weight rating of the combined vehicle(s) is 26,001 pounds or higher.


Now the part that does not make since to me is with my 12,000 GVW dually I can only have a 14,000 pound rated trailer. But if I have a 10,000 GVW rated single axle 1-ton or 3/4 ton truck I can have a 16,000 pound rated trailer. This does not seem right to me.

steve

 

[Steve_a_reno]

Now the part that does not make since to me is with my 12,000 GVW dually I can only have a 14,000 pound rated trailer. But if I have a 10,000 GVW rated single axle 1-ton or 3/4 ton truck I can have a 16,000 pound rated trailer. This does not seem right to me.

steve

This is interesting. I looked at a gooseneck Dump trailer with a 16400 GVWR, but combined with my 1 ton Dodge (11000) GVWR puts the combo at 27400.
I had to buy the 14,000 dumper instead. But if I pulled the same trailer with a 1/2 ton pickup or Toyota, its ok? This is dumb or maybe they don't make a gooseneck in bed ball hitch for small trucks?
It has to be more dangerous....good point indeed. You'd think there would have to be some kind of balance in the law, not just a weight or combined weight. The bigger the pickup, less you can trailer, smaller the pickup, more weight you can tow.....doesn't seem right to me either.

Steve

 

[LeadPoison]

Wow! I haven't checked this thread since I started. Lots of replies.

My reference for the original post is:

https://web01.dps.louisiana.gov/omv...d20d21dd5b82244f86256dac00744c7d?OpenDocument

Looks like I may need a Class D license, but will never get one.

I am just going to pull my tractor and deal with getting pulled over if it happens.

 

[neverenough]

Now the part that does not make since to me is with my 12,000 GVW dually I can only have a 14,000 pound rated trailer. But if I have a 10,000 GVW rated single axle 1-ton or 3/4 ton truck I can have a 16,000 pound rated trailer. This does not seem right to me.

steve

Read post number 20 in the thread " I almost broke the law...alot". This should clear things up for you.

 

[neverenough]

This is interesting. I looked at a gooseneck Dump trailer with a 16400 GVWR, but combined with my 1 ton Dodge (11000) GVWR puts the combo at 27400.
I had to buy the 14,000 dumper instead. But if I pulled the same trailer with a 1/2 ton pickup or Toyota, its ok? This is dumb or maybe they don't make a gooseneck in bed ball hitch for small trucks?
It has to be more dangerous....good point indeed. You'd think there would have to be some kind of balance in the law, not just a weight or combined weight. The bigger the pickup, less you can trailer, smaller the pickup, more weight you can tow.....doesn't seem right to me either.

Steve

Read post number 20 in " I almost broke the law...alot" to see how you don't add the tow vehicle and the trailers rating to get your limit.

 

[sandman2234]

From the license standpoint...you only have to have a CDL if you fall under these guidelines, from the FMCSA. The part about the 10K trailer gets confusing depending on whose version you hear or read. This pretty much states it as is, and is written by the people who make the laws.
David from jax

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

 

[john_bud]

I too was worried about this and thought along the lines of over 10,000# or combination over 26,000#. BUT happily here in the great state of CheeseConsin, I can have a 6000# truck and a 20,000# trailer and NOT need a CDL, a 26,000# truck and an 8000# trailer and NOT need a CDL, a 20,000# truck and an 8000# trailer and NOT need a CDL. These examples are posted on the wisconsin dot web site in a PDF titled "cdl-vol1.pdf".

The keys are if the trailer is over 10,000# AND the total combination is over 26,000#. If the Trailer is UNDER 10,000# and the truck is at 26,000# you are just barely ok. I guess WI is going by the Fed law and not tighter. I do feel sorry for you guys in tougher states, especially the peoples republic of California. Seems crazy strict to me!

jb

 

[RayH]

I too was worried about this and thought along the lines of over 10,000# or combination over 26,000#. BUT happily here in the great state of CheeseConsin, I can have a 6000# truck and a 20,000# trailer and NOT need a CDL, a 26,000# truck and an 8000# trailer and NOT need a CDL, a 20,000# truck and an 8000# trailer and NOT need a CDL. These examples are posted on the wisconsin dot web site in a PDF titled "cdl-vol1.pdf".

The keys are if the trailer is over 10,000# AND the total combination is over 26,000#. If the Trailer is UNDER 10,000# and the truck is at 26,000# you are just barely ok. I guess WI is going by the Fed law and not tighter. I do feel sorry for you guys in tougher states, especially the peoples republic of California. Seems crazy strict to me!

jb

I see the chart you are getting that info from. I would be very leary of that. It doesnt meet federal standards and doesnt match what they say here: Commercial driver license (CDL) - Wisconsin Department of Transportation or herehttp://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/docs/cdl-vol1.pdf, which is a couple pages below that chart.:
You must have a CDL to operate:
• Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating
(GVWR), actual weight, or registered weight over
26,000 lbs. or such vehicle towing a vehicle with a
GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of 10,000
lbs. or less.
• Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle
weight rating (GVWR), actual weight, or registered
weight over 26,000 lbs. provided the GVWR, actual
weight, or registered weight of the towed vehicle(s)
is more than 10,000 lbs.

I think someone in WI government has a reading comprehension problem. Maybe they have their manuals printed in china or something. Here is why the chart can not be right.

"COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986
The Act retained the State's right to issue a driver's license, but established minimum national standards which States must meet when licensing CMV drivers.
It is important to note that the Act does not require drivers to obtain a separate Federal license; it merely requires States to upgrade their existing testing and licensing programs, if necessary, to conform with the Federal minimum standards"

Here is the applicable federal standard:

"Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle-

(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or

(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more);"