I found a peice of rural land 25 years ago......

[dirttoys]

I don't know how people get in so bleak. We are visiting one of our kids in OK. Talking about their friends' futures. Most of them have really good jobs 2 years out of college. Most are pushing 6 figures. Here's the key.... all of them are engineers. Chemical engineer. Civil engineer. Electrical engineer. Etc. Two are going back to school for masters. One is going for PhD. One is a history major working in a factory making around $45-50K, but that one is not too driven, yet he is content. He uses his money to pursue his hobbies. He'll probably live with his folks the rest of his life, and all of them are OK with that. Some kids are just like that.

Anyhow, the great majority of this one's friends are doing just fine 2 years out of school, and so is our older kid and most of their friends at 7 years out of college.

So I don't want to guess as to why young people aren't able to get jobs and pay their bills with a college education, as most of the young one's we know are doing just fine.

I agree with you, it is not all doom and gloom. I have two grown, one is a nurse, the other an IT guy. Both do fine, and make similar money. On the surface when I think 100k I think you should be in good shape, and not worrying too much about money.

That is cause I am old, and 100k used to be good money. We live a very conservative life, in a little tiny town in MO, it would be hard to find a cheaper cost of living in the states. I am retired for 2 years, wife is a fair bit younger, and will likely work for a couple more. She is a low level exec at a bank and makes (oddly) right around 100k. Works from home, best view in the world from her office, is very happy.

I don't mind having folks laugh when I say this, but it is true: A couple living a conservative life, in a cheap place, with a house payment as their only fixed expense, will struggle on 100k if they are putting the money away for emergencies, still trying to help kids once in a while, and saving for retirement.

Now flip that to a younger couple, trying to raise a family, save for retirement AND college, and it is hard. When I was working 200-250k gave you pretty good options, and let you prepare for early retirement, if you didn't need a mcmansion and brand new cars, if the wife made 70k or better you had real disposable income.

Long story, I think 250 is the new 100k, and for all the years I got ready for retirement, I felt I could do it on a million after tax combined with top ss payback at 67, a little tiny pension I got from an earlier career (back when they existed). Now I am hoping 2 million will do it, as aside from investments, I am not making any more.

Every generation has their unique challenges. 10% of them are going to kill it. 10-20% will fail to thrive in one way or an other, and possibly struggle the bulk of their lives. I think the quality of the generation is based on how the 70% in the middle do.

Best,

ed

 

[NoTrespassing]

All the high rent talk reminds me of when I first started out. I always shared rent with several people. Several living arrangements included 3 guys in a one bedroom, 2 girls and 2 guys in a 3 bedroom, me in a basement for $100 per month, 2 guys and a girl in a 2 bedroom. I always shared expenses with others and when I was 22 or 23 I purchase my first house with another guy and rented out the third bedroom to a friend. We sold the house about 6 years later and I moved on to a horse farm with a girl and rent was included as pay for caring for the horses. I lived "rent free" in that little apartment in the riding arena for about 6 years. After that we bought 10 acres and put a used manufactured home on it for next to nothing and paid it off quickly. I've been living rent and mortgage free for a long time and taxes are very very low.

 

[MossRoad]

...A couple living a conservative life, in a cheap place, with a house payment as their only fixed expense, will struggle on 100k if they are putting the money away for emergencies, still trying to help kids once in a while, and saving for retirement.

...

No offense meant here, however, my wife and my situations might be different from others. Just making an illustration using us as an example.

Without going into details, my wife and I get by just fine on less than $100K per year.

We realize we are fortunate, and are grateful for that. However, we've been very disciplined on our finances since we started dating in the late 70s. That discipline and some good fortune has been good to us and allowed us to help our children as well. No major job losses. No major health catastrophes. Knock on wood.

 

[dirttoys]

No offense meant here, however, my wife and my situations might be different from others. Just making an illustration using us as an example.

Without going into details, my wife and I get by just fine on less than $100K per year.

We realize we are fortunate, and are grateful for that. However, we've been very disciplined on our finances since we started dating in the late 70s. That discipline and some good fortune has been good to us and allowed us to help our children as well. No major job losses. No major health catastrophes. Knock on wood.

I know a lot of folks that feel that way. It is frustrating for me, in that we are genuinely home bodies. Newest car is '14, and never had a payment on any of them. No payments but utilities and house payment. The house payment is inflated a little because I wanted it done before I hit ss. If you have cleared the house hurdle, then I think I could creep in under a little. Post retirement obviously you don't have 401k's to max, and the taxes get a little better........... But long term care insurance, car insurance, house still grabs tax and insurance. Our year long budget before covid was 5k per month/60k per year, with all the taxes/retirement/insurance that comes out of earned income we would fit right at a 100k gross. With prices now, even making an effort, we are over by 10-15%.

It is all together different for a young couple trying to pile up savings, and get the kids ready for college.

God Bless, I hope things continue to go well until your number is called

 

[jyoutz]

Are these the refugees we see on TV fleeing from neighboring, more oppressive states that have lots of wildfires?
Florida is receiving 1000 freedom lovers PER DAY

Wildfires are the rule in western forests; they are ecologically adapted to fire and need frequent fire for nutrient recycling and to keep the dry forests open. Lightening and native Americans ignited these low severity fires. After 100-400 years of European settlement and activities these forests are now unnaturally dense with as much as 5-10 times the historic number of trees per acre, and instead of burning with low severity, they now burn with unnaturally high severity. The answer is restoration activities, not just logging (but logging can be a part of restoring healthy forest conditions). The problem has been 100+ years in the making and will take considerable time and money to fix. The primary challenge is finding markets for low value small diameter trees. There is simply not enough industry or demand for that material. There is plenty of markets for high quality sawlogs, but just harvesting saw logs without thinning low value small trees and brush and prescribed burning isn’t going to adequately restore western forests. The conifer dominated forests of the west are far different than hardwood dominated forests of the east and Midwest. But western forests are similar to some southeastern forests such as longleaf pine. Making casual derogatory comments about fires in western landscapes isn’t helpful or informative. These forests evolved with fires and need them to stay healthy and productive, but not uncharacteristically severe fires.

 

[jyoutz]

No offense meant here, however, my wife and my situations might be different from others. Just making an illustration using us as an example.

Without going into details, my wife and I get by just fine on less than $100K per year.

We realize we are fortunate, and are grateful for that. However, we've been very disciplined on our finances since we started dating in the late 70s. That discipline and some good fortune has been good to us and allowed us to help our children as well. No major job losses. No major health catastrophes. Knock on wood.

Good for you and your wife. But we all realize that income is relative to location. Houses are cheap in much of the middle section of the country; not so in the east and west.

 

[jyoutz]

We were just in Florida and the number of homes being built there is reason alone to travel to Florida. Its like a refugee occupation of another country down there. Lumber prices be damned. Anyone with a tool pouch and basic knowledge is working 70 hours a week putting up homes as fast as they can be built. The Villages are quadrupling in size. Everywhere along the major highways 1000 home developments are going up. Highways being doubled in width and off ramps being built into entire new towns that were once a crossroad in a swamp. Everywhere you look, construction.
My wifes step mother just retired from being a realtor pre-boom there. Said theres not enough realtors, construction or financing people in the world to support their building boom.
Florida has gained almost 3 million people in 10 years and a 1/4 million in just the past year alone. Meanwhile, New York lost almost a 1/2 million people in the same period of time.
Theres just no denying most Americans love freedom. Now it will be interesting to see if after they move to states with more freedom, will they want to keep it that way?

To us westerners, freedom is tens and hundreds of thousands of acres of open lands without towns, roads, and subdivisions. I would feel like I were in jail in a state that is overdeveloped. Not my idea of freedom.

 

[MossRoad]

Good for you and your wife. But we all realize that income is relative to location. Houses are cheap in much of the middle section of the country; not so in the east and west.

I was speaking to the person that lives in an area who's cost of living is similar to mine.

 

[ultrarunner]

There are tried and true ways to home ownership just as valid today as ever.

Not to beat a dead horse but military service opens a world of option both housing and career and is still the only option for some with very modest backgrounds.

Even in California a Corpsman can challenge the Board of Nursing and know several that have.

Posted before about high school sweethearts, both first in family to attend college… right out of college they were 259k couple… RN and Police Officer.

UC California Davis class of 2021 grad almost 200k working for Goggle… no silver spoon either… kid earns more than parents.

Specifically to housing…

Helped several break into the market by buying a 4 plex.

Live in the one bedroom and use the rent from the other 3 for debt service… plus owner occupied loan.

I did this with a duplex at 23… 3 bedroom home with legal studio cottage in back… guess where lived?

Helped another get nearly free apartment as weekend resident manager.

Both my brothers had roommates until they married…

Some have the silver spoon but most succeed by determination then and now.

Kids today have opportunities never dreamed of and all my nieces so far have earned University scholarships… both sport and academic.

I worked for 1.35 an hour and today starting at fast food is $16 here.

 

[riptides]

There are tried and true ways to home ownership just as valid today as ever.

Not to beat a dead horse but military service opens a world of option both housing and career and is still the only option for some with very modest backgrounds.

....

And foreign service opens your eyes to see the true value of America and the opportunity it presents.