I guess my prices are too high...

[Rara Avis]

Yeah, I'm not proposing anyone raise hay as a cash crop, but if you are already mowing tall grass as a business, there might, and I emphasize might, be a way to optimize profits by making hay. You can't plan your business for years of extreems, but around here I'd imagine you'd have a hard time if your plan was to raise wheat or beans and buy hay for cattle. Besides the fact that your cash crop did not likely yield much if anything, the cost of hay is rediculous, and that's only when you can actually find anyone willing to sell it. But certainly there are more economical ways to use land than for hay. We try to practice sustainable aggriculture, which means we want to be able to provide for all of our animals with the yeilds from our own land. That's not a "business" decision. We could optimize profits by stacking more cattle on the land and buying feed. That's more of a principle decision of the way we want to do things. I have no problems going the feed lot rout, there's money in it, this is just how we want to do it with our own lands. We'll lease more land when we need it.

Why haying is dying...
Used JD 328 Baler with 42 Kicker about $10000
Used JD 1219 Haybine about $1700
Used NH Rake about $900
Used Tedder about $1200
Used Bale Wagons about $1000 per...need about 3 wagons per 5 acres with minimal barn loading crew

Yeah you make more money bushhogging

 

[Renovator]

Around here most grajn farmers have batwing mowers. They mow neighbors land for alot less than I can with my 7 footer. To them it is good public relations with neighbors and land owners. I stick to my prices because I do the ones they don't want. I do other things that make as much or more money than mowing. Renovator

 

[jinman]

My neighbor just had his fields custom mowed, the rate was $50 per hour or $12 an acre. This was done with a 15 ft batwing.

I thought your neighbor's rate he paid didn't add up. $50 per hour or $12 per acre didn't seem right, so I did a little math. Figuring that the 15 ft batwing had some overlap on both sides of a swath, I came up with an average speed of 3 MPH to make the $50 per hour and $12 per acre even out. You didn't say how big the neighbor's fields were, but I'm thinking they were pretty big with minimal turning. The shredding contractor probably maintained 3.5 MPH or greater in the open areas. Those numbers do make sense after all.

 

[john_bud]

Yeah, the bigger the fields the bigger the equipment, fewer turns etc. It's all economies of scale. It's the reason small 80-240 acre family farms are on the endangered species list.

It's also one reason why a 5 acre field can cost as much as a 25 acre field to cut. 5*$60 = $300 VS 25*$12= $300

jb

 

[Spiveyman]

Why haying is dying...
Used JD 328 Baler with 42 Kicker about $10000
Used JD 1219 Haybine about $1700
Used NH Rake about $900
Used Tedder about $1200
Used Bale Wagons about $1000 per...need about 3 wagons per 5 acres with minimal barn loading crew

Yeah you make more money bushhogging

I yield. That's why I said "might" in my post there. Bush hog and shredd that hay all to pieces!! I wish you could beam that grass to KY, we'd sure appreciate it.

 

[teg]

Last year I shredded my 10 acres for fun!! This year a neighbor asked what I was going to do with my "hay". I know it was a bad year for hay so I told him that he could have it... he got 33 bales off of 10 acres, they were about 5'x6'-ish (not sure if that's a good or bad yield).

A friend ask how much did he paid for the hay (cow grade?) I said nothing I didn't want it to go to waste and it saved me a day of mowing (hey! wait a minute... I like mowing!!!) I know a square bale goes for $3-4, what does a big round bale go for? I guess I should ask, what does an acre of hay in the field go for?

 

[john_bud]

Let's just say that you gave you neighbor over $1000 and depending on quality of the hay and prevailing prices, it could have been over $2000.

You got anything else you want to give away?? Can I get in line?

jb

 

[Spiveyman]

NO kidding!!! What do you give out a Christmas time!?!?!?

In a good year we've gotten 5 - 6 bales/acre, this year 3 bales/acre is about what I'd expect on the first cut, maybe 2 on the second if there even is a second. Don't know how much rain you've gotten. In a good year (6 bale/acre year) everyone has hay and you may be able to sell good stuff for $12 - $15 in KY. This year people leave blank checks out there, drop off all the hay you want for as much as you want. Was at $40 in June, $50, $60, I've heard higher than that. No one has hay to sell around here.

I can see where there's not a business model to support this, but if you already have the equipment, and have the time, you could make some cash offering to mow someone's hay around here and then putting the hay up.

 

[teg]

...but I don't have the equipment Anybody know a ballpark price for "letting" someone (with the right equipment) cut/bale the hay? I've heard that some people will keep a percentage of what's cut (but I don't need it & I don't want the hassle of selling it).

The hay is still in *my* field... I guess it's cheaper to store it on my property I don't mind it, I love the look of the hay bales in the field. I'm sure I'll have to get on my neighbor to move them before it's all over and done with.

It was the first cutting, it has some blackberry, thistle, milkweed and other flowers/weeds (no more than 5%). He was going to use it for cattle. I don't think that it is 'horse quality' (only a guess, as you can see - I have NO clue what I'm doing).

 

[Spiveyman]

teg - we're not getting on you man, I totally understand. It's called "cutting on shares" and yes sometimes people will cut on shares. Used to be able to get people to cut 70/30, where they would keep 30%, you get the rest, lately you are lucky to get someone to do it 50/50. My uncle will only do it if he gets all the hay, guess that's not exactly cutting on shares any more. However, if you had someone cut it on shares at say 50/50, then they own half the hay, you own the other half. You could then ask if they wanted to buy your half for a reasonable price depending on the going rate in your area. If there were here you'd have no problem getting someone to agree to that this year. They'd get 16-ish bales for their trouble and you'd be able to sell the other 16-ish bales in about 43 seconds for $50 each or more.

All depends on the market, supply & demand. Last year we had both, this year we only have demand.

Oh, and if you want your neighbor to move those bales, try putting up a sign in the field that says "Hay for sale, real cheap!" I bet he's out there that night moving those suckers! Ha! (That is assuming he can take a joke.)

 

[teg]

No problem In the nutshell, is that I would rather see someone else use it, instead of letting it rot!! You guys did get me thinking... What if he *sells* my hay... HEY!!! that ain't right. I don't think that would happen since he's got a lot of cattle. Next year, I may have to think more about it.

I guess my prices are too LOW....

 

[Oleozz]

I thought your neighbor's rate he paid didn't add up. $50 per hour or $12 per acre didn't seem right, so I did a little math. Figuring that the 15 ft batwing had some overlap on both sides of a swath, I came up with an average speed of 3 MPH to make the $50 per hour and $12 per acre even out. You didn't say how big the neighbor's fields were, but I'm thinking they were pretty big with minimal turning. The shredding contractor probably maintained 3.5 MPH or greater in the open areas. Those numbers do make sense after all.

The field was about 130 acres and since he has a shooting preserve and wanted a good bit of cover left it was just mowed in strips.

 

[john_bud]

TEG,

You may or may not have made a mistake. You DID make a buddy out of your neighbor. I doubt that he will, with a clear conscience, be able to deny any request you make of him. Borrow equipement, help with projects, that sort of thing.

Maybe next year you can sell him the hay at 1/2 of the going rate. Or even rent the field to him. With cuttings, the weeds will go down. You may want to lime it. Maybe talk to him and when he has his fields limed, have him lime yours too. Would help the quality of the hay and the cost is little. (He pays). Have you thought about him pasturing his cattle on your field? They can add a significant amount of organic fertilizer...

jb

 

[teg]

JB, He had asked about keeping horses in our fields (our fences would not hold a cow in... or so he says ) I had no interest in it, mainly because of the fertilizer!! My dog, on the other hand, would more than love it!! We drive through a few dozen cows to get to our land, I love that aspect but as long as they are on someone else's land . Sometimes the cows are all over the road and we refer to that as our "traffic jam".

Another reason for letting him have the hay was to ask about a couple acres of woods down by our creek. Just to let him know if he ever needs any money that we would like to buy some more land. Definitely want to make as many friends as possible up there. Dan

 

[Spiveyman]

That kind of friendship can far outweight the price of a crop of hay. Good move man. That's the behind the scenes stuff that makes a huge difference. If you like the look of the hay (kind of) and it's buying you some capital with this guy, then you've got a great deal - ASSUMING that he comes through and you wind up with some good land for a good price.

Funny to think of your traffic jam! That kind wouldn't bother me near as much as what I drive through!

 

[crabjoe]

If you're not a vegan, might be able to get a great deal on a meat....

Just doing a good deed it worth it. Remember, what comes around, goes around.

 

[srsu99]

I have had people offer me small coastal fields in the area for free. It is actually cheaper for them becasue with coastal if you dont fertilize and cut it it just seems to die out. On another note I dont think there is much money in cutting or raking hay but.........baling is another story. Going rate here for baling net wrapped 5x6 bales is $16. A good baler in normal thickness coastal can bale a bale in 2 min. Thick coastal 1 min. Do the math 16x30=$480 per hour. New baler costs $35000, new tract with cab to pull it costs $40000. Net wrap cost $200 per role but does like 100 bales I think so only $2 dollars per bale for that. Baler can make about 10000 bales before many wear item parts need replacement.
So.....
$16 per bale time 30 bales an hr = $480
minus net wrap = $60
minus fuel 4 gallon per hr x $2.40 gal= $9.60
Operator costs at $18 per hr $18.00

whats left besides cost =$392.40
of depreciation and
repairs
of depreciation

$75000 for tractor and baler divided by $392.40 per hr = 191 hrs to pay machine off, not bad money

Now I know tis does not take into account for things like oil changes, insurance, move costs, well move cost would be an extra charge to bale the hay but.....

Tell me theres no money in baling hay. Also in really thick hay it is possible to bale 1 bale per minute = $960 per hr

 

[redlevel]

One thing you need to keep in mind-those rolls of hay represent nutrients you are removing from the field. When cattle are grazing, they return the nutrients, theoretically in an even distribution, over a period of time. When you bushhog the field, the nutrients eventually go back in the soil. when you cut hay, you are hauling off N-P-K in every roll, just like if you combined a grain crop.

The point is that after a few years of haying without adding some fertilizer, most desirable grasses are going to give way to undesirable weeds. That's when the thistles and briars will really take over.

That is a beautiful hay field. Somebody should agree to hay it for a couple of years rent free, provided they work toward getting the soil in good shape. Given the expense of fertilizer, that would not be a bad deal for the landowner and the cattleman. After a couple of years, he should expect to pay reasonable rent. I'm speaking from experience with bermudagrass in the Southeast, and what I know may not apply to your situation, but I wouldn't cut many more times without adding some fertilizer.

 

[KrumpsBrother]

I spent a little under 2000$ fertilizing and spraying 40 acre stand of Dahl bluestem this spring. I had it hayed between rains here and made 300 rounds which cost me 20$/each to bale. It took the custom baler 2 days, one half day to cut, half day to rake and a full day to bale. At the end of the day I wrote check for 6 grand. He used a newer twine bailer pulled by a 20 year old cabbed JD. The rake was pulled by an old JD 4020.

The bale man seems to make a pretty good living here as he stays busy with hay thru the growing season, I guess he does alot of fishing in the winter.

KB

 

[Spiveyman]

One thing you need to keep in mind-those rolls of hay represent nutrients you are removing from the field. When cattle are grazing, they return the nutrients, theoretically in an even distribution, over a period of time. When you bushhog the field, the nutrients eventually go back in the soil. when you cut hay, you are hauling off N-P-K in every roll, just like if you combined a grain crop.

The point is that after a few years of haying without adding some fertilizer, most desirable grasses are going to give way to undesirable weeds. That's when the thistles and briars will really take over.

That is a beautiful hay field. Somebody should agree to hay it for a couple of years rent free, provided they work toward getting the soil in good shape. Given the expense of fertilizer, that would not be a bad deal for the landowner and the cattleman. After a couple of years, he should expect to pay reasonable rent. I'm speaking from experience with bermudagrass in the Southeast, and what I know may not apply to your situation, but I wouldn't cut many more times without adding some fertilizer.

That's a REALLY good point to counter my "I hate to see good hay go to waste" point. If you don't plan to fertilize (and maybe lime) don't pull the hay off. Thanks redlevel.