I need to automate my bale handling

[Robert_in_NY]

I just dropped in here, in this thread, so maybe it has been discussed yet:

Why not just use big square bales, and handle them with a spike on the front loader ??
We used to have a lot of small bales, but because all of us have daytime jobs, and the one who doesnt (my father) is 65 and has arthritis...

Since i have my front loader, we buy all straw in big bales, stacked and covered under a heavy tarp from an open bed truck.
All hay we grow, and the hay we buy, is wrapped and stacked outside.


Do you need the hay for yourself or to sell to horse owners ? Individual horse owners might not want big bales because they cant hold em on a wheelbarrow, but if its four yourself: You can just take flakes of a big square bale like you do on a small bale. We have a big wheelbarrow for feeding, and just load bale flakes on it by hand. When the feed is more hay than silage, you can do this without the risk of smelly clothes when feeding the horses before going to church on sunday morning.

We pick up a bale from the stack and put one in front of the stable with the front loader, from where we carry the feed in the barn with the large flatbed wheelbarrow.
We make large square bales and wrap them, even if the feed is dry enough to go unwrapped: the logistics is so much easier with wrapped bales, if the contractor came late at night to bale and wrap, they can stay in the field untill i have time to pick them up after work, even if it rains all night


If it was hay for yourself only (not selling to horse owners) you'd be buying a big square baler for the price of one of these stacker wagons, so it doesnt require more investment than a bale fork on your frontloader, and 2 or 3 cheap flatbed bale wagons.
This method is more flexible and more reliable overall, with wrapped, or unwrapped bales.

almost all of my hay is sold to horse owners and all they want are small square bales. Round bales or big squares are not an option no matter how often I talk to them about it.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I missed the pole barn thread then. I think thats a great idea too and would go well with either the stack wagon or grapple/accumulator. Although I think in the long run the later would be more flexible and efficient. Guess you have to balance the cost of running thru the field more than once w/ being able to load/unload completely w/ machines.

I am curious as to how the accumulator systems would be more flexible then a Stack wagon with a grapple?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I know you're in an isolated area Robert but swapping some fields to corn or grains for a few years might be an option. Not sure how busy your falls are but it can spread the work over a bit more time. The big limit is access to custom combining. I would hate to buy a combine for just a few acres.

If I were in your position, I'd get a dolly for your trailers, a cheap ground drag accumulator, a grapple and try it for a year. I'd sell the thrower racks and thrower since you know you can't go back to that with your back. If the ground drag works ok but you have the usual ground drag problems, search for a kuhns. If it works terrible sell it and you haven't lost any money really.

My problem is I can't stand fields going idle so I'd have to have a plan for what to do with the fields such as crops or round baling and finding new customers. With a 5x5 baler you'd be able to put up 2000 square bales equivalent on your own in a day. Just doesn't make you money like that many squares.

I have 40 acres of corn in already this year, I also have a small combine (2 row corn head and 10' grain platform) and I have two guys local who will do custom harvesting of corn. One is a neighbor and is who I have hired to harvest my vineyards this year. I just can't plant more then 40 acres of corn in a year as sitting on the tractor for all the tillage is hard on me. I barely finished the 40 acres and had to have help take over running the equipment.

Next year I will take my corn ground and put it into beans, turn over some old hay fields and put them into corn and go at it from there. I hope to do a lot of the plowing this fall though so I have less to do in the spring.

I have thought about buying a drag type accumulator that could pull behind a ATV, UTV or truck even if I bought a stack wagon. It would allow me the option of gathering bales if the stack wagon went down for some reason but I can't spend too much on something I may never use. So if I find a good deal on one I will buy it and go at it from there.

 

[jimg]

I am curious as to how the accumulator systems would be more flexible then a Stack wagon with a grapple?

When you sell out of the field would your customers want to tear down a large stack or get loaded w/ a grapple/pick up accumulated bales? If you want to take a load down the road would you want to do that w/ a stack wagon (multiple times maybe) or w/ 1 or more wagons? Guess a lot depends on how you sell hay. To me the flexibility of an accumulator, grapple and wagons is far better than a single stack wagon. Im sure they must also be simpler and cheaper to maintain.

 

[slowzuki]

I forgot you're plowing and planting on the TN as your big tractor is tied up with the dealer garbage, that would humble my back even. Any chance of borrowing a larger tractor for the discing at least?

As for the accumulator, I see what you're saying. You'd stop dropping on the ground as soon as the bale wagon died and start accumulating then once done baling move it to another vehicle. If I recall some of the ground drag models are setup for a 1/4 turn chute like a bale wagon.

I just can't plant more then 40 acres of corn in a year as sitting on the tractor for all the tillage is hard on me. I barely finished the 40 acres and had to have help take over running the equipment.

Next year I will take my corn ground and put it into beans, turn over some old hay fields and put them into corn and go at it from there. I hope to do a lot of the plowing this fall though so I have less to do in the spring.

I have thought about buying a drag type accumulator that could pull behind a ATV, UTV or truck even if I bought a stack wagon. It would allow me the option of gathering bales if the stack wagon went down for some reason but I can't spend too much on something I may never use. So if I find a good deal on one I will buy it and go at it from there.

 

[Renze]

I just can't plant more then 40 acres of corn in a year as sitting on the tractor for all the tillage is hard on me. I barely finished the 40 acres and had to have help take over running the equipment.

Robert, what exactly makes it so hard on you ? hanging in the seat when driving with 1 side in the furrow ? there are seats that can be adjusted to sit level when the tractor is not, or you could convert to on-land plough... On the other hand, you could change to ripper/disk harrow combination machines instead of ploughing.

In Holland, this is getting popular:
http://www.ftp-eversagro.nl/pdf/def/Cultivatoren/Voor-cultivatoren/Holsteiner algemeen.pdf

The cultivator/ripper has 3pt connection to hook a tiller, seeder, disk harrow or rotor harrow. You can drive slow (less bumps) and still do quite intensive tillage if needed.

I know in America there are many variations on this theme, in pull type implements.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

When you sell out of the field would your customers want to tear down a large stack or get loaded w/ a grapple/pick up accumulated bales? If you want to take a load down the road would you want to do that w/ a stack wagon (multiple times maybe) or w/ 1 or more wagons? Guess a lot depends on how you sell hay. To me the flexibility of an accumulator, grapple and wagons is far better than a single stack wagon. Im sure they must also be simpler and cheaper to maintain.

You may not know this but there are grapples for use with the stacks made by stack wagons. They will take each tier one at a time and either stack higer or load trucks. You do not have to touch a bale unless you want to. The grapples look the same as the grapples you would use with an accumulator. THey are just designed for the size of the tier made by the stack wagon (depending on which wagon).

So both systems allow you to use a grapple to handle and load bales, just the stack wagon eliminates needing to have a lot of wagons or big trailers in the field as well as not having to drive multiple times all over the field.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I forgot you're plowing and planting on the TN as your big tractor is tied up with the dealer garbage, that would humble my back even. Any chance of borrowing a larger tractor for the discing at least?

As for the accumulator, I see what you're saying. You'd stop dropping on the ground as soon as the bale wagon died and start accumulating then once done baling move it to another vehicle. If I recall some of the ground drag models are setup for a 1/4 turn chute like a bale wagon.

If I went with the accumulator that would pull behind either baler, atv, utv or truck I could use it even after the baler has finished baling if the stack wagon did break down. I just had to have the right accumulator to handle bales on edge. Otherwise if I am pulling it with an ATV I could just kick each bale over as I drive by it pulling the accumulator. It would suck having to knock each bale over but it is better then picking each bale up off the ground and loading trailers by hand. I just always try to have a back up plan in case something happens (like a tractor gets stolen, baler breaks down....)

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert, what exactly makes it so hard on you ? hanging in the seat when driving with 1 side in the furrow ? there are seats that can be adjusted to sit level when the tractor is not, or you could convert to on-land plough... On the other hand, you could change to ripper/disk harrow combination machines instead of ploughing.

In Holland, this is getting popular:
http://www.ftp-eversagro.nl/pdf/def/Cultivatoren/Voor-cultivatoren/Holsteiner%20algemeen.pdf

The cultivator/ripper has 3pt connection to hook a tiller, seeder, disk harrow or rotor harrow. You can drive slow (less bumps) and still do quite intensive tillage if needed.

I know in America there are many variations on this theme, in pull type implements.

It is a multiple of things. A lot of my problem is just the fact that I do not hold up as well to getting on and off the tractor to put rocks in the bucket, constant jaring from going over bumps, initial pass with the disc over plowed ground, twisting in the seat to keep an eye on the implement (I am not comfortable with mirrors as they do not let me see the entire implement) and basically, I just can't sit on the tractor for long periods of time anymore. I can't sit still for very long periods of time anywhere anymore.

I feel if I did get a newer tractor like a T6000 or red paint version that had a larger, flat deck cab where I could have a nice air suspension seat with swivel, be able to stretch out my legs easier and basically have a comfortable work area I could stay out there longer but right now I really can not afford that rig yet. I need to upgrade my spray tractor first as it is way too small and is an open station tractor and I do not like using open station tractors for spraying. So once I get that upgraded, and figure out my hay operation I hope to get a new 100 pto hp tractor for my tillage and hay work. But until then I need to make due and hope the corn prices stay up where they are for a bit longer.

And I do follow the European farm practices quite a bit as you guys are always looking to make things more efficient which is something the OEMs here in the US have failed to do. They like to keep the same old practices and just make things bigger. The only problem is I can't get a lot of the equipment you guys use and even if I did parts support would be a nightmare right now. On the bright side, Canada is following closer to Europe as far as new farm practices and are bringing in a lot of new equipment. I am right on the Canadian border so I could get equipment from up north if I found something that would work with my operation and budget. But that budget thing is a bully.

I do hope to find a nice chisel plow to pull thru the corn stubble as it will be a lot easier on me to not have to plow that ground. But chisel plows don't work as well on sod ground and I am trying to turn over older hay fields to rotate them so I will still have to plow this fall hopefully.

And thanks for the link, I always enjoy chatting with you as you bring an entirely different perspective to our discussions.

 

[chh]

I will tell you Robert that since I traded the MF 596 for the MF 5455 I have come to love the air ride seat. I am just finishing another custom hay job that have fields that are pretty rough. The air suspension was a big help for me with the softer ride and the ability to change the seat settings on the go are great.
I have had people express interest to me in buying small squares for their horses. So far the interest has not been enough to justify taking the plunge in that direction though. Handling would be a huge problem for me also. I can't handle them like I used to and the people that so far want to buy them don't have much storage space. So I would have to put it all up and sell it a load at a time. I had seen the ads for the bale bandit, but sure didn't realize they are so expensive. I had thought that might be a way to go for me. The accumulators and grapples I have looked at don't come very cheap either though. A full setup was in a farm auction near me a couple of weeks ago. If I had had the time I would have gone and seen how much it went for. It and the square baler had not been used much. The guy was retiring from the custom hay business and was selling out. Most of his work was round bales and the square bale setup mainly for hay he was selling from his own property.